Nicole & Kate Can Relate

[00:00:00] Kate: Hey friends, it's Nicole and Kate, your girls from across the globe, Sydney, Australia, and Puerto Rico to be exact. And we're so excited to be sharing this time with you.

[00:00:10] Nicole: Get ready for a candid convo with us, Nicole and Kate. Throughout this podcast, we'll be sharing our own experiences and thoughts in the hopes that you'll realize that one, you're not alone.

[00:00:20] Nicole: And two, that open and honest convos can lead to awesome discoveries shifts in perspectives and energy. To move ahead with confidence.

[00:00:28] Kate: That's what real friends do they provide love, support, and space for one another to share without judgment, speak, without hesitation, and to learn from each other, even when we don't agree.

[00:00:40] Kate: And with that, let's dive in. Oh boy, friends. Do we have a massive topic for you today? It is overwhelm and overwhelm is such an important topic because no matter how efficient we are, no matter how great of planners we are. And regardless of whether we have kids, a business, a job, or taking care of family members or all of these things, but together, we all have those feelings of overwhelm creep up and take over from time to time.

[00:01:12] Kate: The bottom line is we can all relate to overwhelm. And Nicole and I are so excited to chat today about what causes overwhelm, whether we believe there's a solution that can help us rid ourselves of overwhelm once and for all. And we're going to be quite candid about times in our lives. That overwhelm has

[00:01:32] Kate: won and how we handled that. So Nicole, give it to me straight. What is the first thing that comes to mind when you think about overwhelm?

[00:01:45] Nicole: Well, first of all, let me catch my breath because as soon as you're talking about overwhelm, I get this breathlessness feeling like breathe, exhale. Um, for me, overwhelm.

[00:01:58] Nicole: Is, and I still can't believe I do this. I feel like I have to do everything and I have to do everything in life and business and I have to do it now. That is what overwhelm is for me.

[00:02:11] Kate: Yeah. Like your, your tasks are gonna run away from you. And you're not allowed to do them later. Yeah. What is that? Oh my goodness.

[00:02:21] Kate: I can totally relate to that. I can totally relate to having like so many things on your list and thinking like, well, that's important. That's important. That's important. That's important. That's important. And it's like, it never seems to end. Right. Um, I don't know. That's the thing. Yeah, I, I feel like I, I remind myself constantly on a daily basis lately, uh, just because I've become so obsessed with this topic of overwhelm and time management and how do we handle this?

[00:02:49] Kate: And can we rid ourselves of overwhelm? And so I'm constantly reminding myself that this is actually very simple when we break it down and we look at the root cause of overwhelm and it's when we have too many things to do and not enough time to do that. And when you think of it like that, it seems so simple.

[00:03:07] Kate: Right? And, and I, I, I, I've experienced this so many times where I go on these streaks where like I have a wide open calendar. I don't feel overwhelmed at all. I'm accomplishing things. I'm working towards my goal. I feel great about. Oh, that, and then all of a sudden I'll hit a week where I open my calendar and I'm like, what did I do?

[00:03:29] Kate: And, and I ha I feel that like pull out the paper bag, like I'm feeling overwhelmed. I don't know why I booked myself like this. And I, and I can't figure out. If we know that it's so simple as don't overbook yourself and don't schedule too many things because we have a finite amount of time, why, I don't know what what's the....problem....

[00:03:58] Nicole: Yeah. Well, I feel like everything is important. That's where I think I trip myself up. I give everything. Equal weight, equal priority, equal importance. And it almost feels like, why would you do that Nicole? It like, w what is it in my nature that makes me feel like, you know, responding immediately to an email because I get one email, like the seven inboxes later, you could be an email all day.

[00:04:29] Nicole: Right. And like, literally, oh my gosh. Right to two things that really, I know a big goals in our business, in my life that are, you know, every things that I will do that will actually move those things forward. Those goals forward. How is that, you know, of equal priority? It almost seems like it doesn't make sense.

[00:04:50] Nicole: It almost seems like, you know,

[00:04:54] Kate: But do you think that it has something to do though with, I mean, when you talk about, when you compare, like replying to an email or being in your inbox to working on something, that's going to get you closer to your business goals? I mean, I would say that probably the reason that we find ourselves doing that, even though we know that is the wrong route to take.

[00:05:14] Kate: The inbox is so much easier. Like you don't really have to think when you're in your inbox. Right.

[00:05:23] Nicole: Is that what it is? I just want to do the easy task? You're so right....

[00:05:27] Kate: So right though. Well, because oftentimes when we're thinking about like these big, important goals and things that, you know, we want to work towards to achieve the things in life and in business that are most important to them. A lot of the times, it's not super clear what those actions are.

[00:05:43] Kate: Right. And I think that we get tripped up and we don't know where to start. And that's, that is overwhelmed is feeling like I want to do this, but I don't know what to do. And yeah, I think we use that as a crutch to though.

[00:05:57] Nicole: Yes. Oh, I just, you made me think of how I used to do my to-do lists. It's really funny.

[00:06:04] Nicole: It's like you said, you know, there's this big thing I've got to do, but what are the actual little steps in between? So I dunno, I used to write my to-do lists as the, the, the item would be actually 15 things in one. I'm trying to think of an example, but like one, yeah, that is how I used to ride.

[00:06:23] Kate: I don't, I don't get it.

[00:06:24] Kate: I don't understand.

[00:06:26] Nicole: Um, all right, well, this is like a big I'll talk.

[00:06:32] Kate: Do you mean that you would have like one thing on your to-do list? So you're like, oh, it's just one simple thing, but that one thing is actually 15 things. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. I've been there. Everyone's been there. Everyone does that. Even if it's like subconscious, I feel like everyone does that at one time or another.

[00:06:51] Nicole: But I think that it, but until you realize it, um, it is overwhelming because there's no way if, if that one task is actually, you know, 10, 5, 10 things broken down, then reasonably like rationally, you're only probably going to be able to do, you know, five out of those 15 things in your morning block or whatever.

[00:07:12] Nicole: Like, however you break up your day. So it's unreasonable to expect that you're going to do that other task. And then for other things as well that you've got on your list or 10 other things that you've got on your list in an entire day, you just, you're just setting yourself up to fail. Um,

[00:07:27] Kate: and when I think about this too, I think like that type of lesson.

[00:07:33] Kate: Has to become part of your daily routine to reflect on what happened throughout your day. I know we're going to be talking about daily routines in another episode. I'm very excited for that because I think it can make such a massive difference, but I've actually a part of my daily routine. And the evening is I reflect back on my day and if I didn't accomplish everything that I set out to do, I have to tell I have to answer why.

[00:07:58] Kate: And so that would be a great example. Okay. I didn't accomplish everything that I wanted to. Why, because I tried to show myself that I had one thing to do and it turned into five. And so when you, when you ask yourself that and you force yourself to answer that question, then hopefully it's going to help you and not repeating it right.

[00:08:17] Kate: Then the next time. Um, you're going to be more conscious of the fact that that one thing is actually four or five. Don't set yourself up for failure, take on one or two of those things today. And you could do three, four, and five tomorrow.

[00:08:32] Nicole: You're saying that you do it at the end of the day. I don't, that's a really, it's a good strategy actually.

[00:08:37] Nicole: To reflect at the end and then ask yourself why I find myself doing that in the morning. So, yeah. And like you said, we'll talk about daily routines, but it's in the morning that I, before I actually look at anything. And that's why I kind of feel like the way I've started to deal with overwhelm is to be.

[00:08:57] Nicole: Proactive. I refer to it as being proactive rather than reactive, because if I, if I just go straight into an email inbox or looking at my notifications on my phone, um, whether it's like, you know, the team notifications that just causes me to react and respond to everything and it's in my nature that I want to respond and immediately do everything because remember, that's what I think, you know, I have to do, you have to do everything right.

[00:09:23] Nicole: Whereas what I've done. What I say, I call them being proactive is before I even look anything like that, any of any of those notifications or. Anyone else's requests on me. I look at my list. I look at what's ahead of the, on the day and I say, okay, well, what can I get done today? And I do all the things that I need to get done for myself first, whether it's my morning routine, that's super important for me every morning.

[00:09:53] Nicole: And we'll talk about that, but I make sure I get those things done first. And I look at that to-do list and I make sure it's organized. And it's realistic before I look at anyone else's requests on, you know, that come from whatever that

[00:10:10] Kate: is such an awesome habit. And one that I think we all can work on. Right.

[00:10:15] Kate: Is that not being reactive? I hear a lot of people talk about it as other people's agenda, you know, work on your agenda before you start working on other people's agenda. Cause once you get into other people's agenda, that's where you stay. It's very hard to pull yourself back. It is because like you said, I'm the exact same.

[00:10:37] Kate: I feel like it's in my nature to want to be supportive and helpful. And when I see someone asking you a question that I could answer quite quickly, like I want to do that. But then you get into like what I call text emailing. When like you email someone, they email you back, then you email again, then they email again.

[00:10:55] Kate: Yeah. Oh,

[00:10:56] Nicole: totally. So just going into one tab or like, because there was a link in there and then in that link, there was a link to something else. And then all of a sudden, how did I end up here? So easy to do that? It requires so much discipline. Like I'm not, yeah, I'm not. I say that I'm like proactive and I have this morning routine and I am pretty disciplined about it, but there are so many days where I, yeah.

[00:11:22] Kate: Trip up and... And as the day goes on, I feel like that discipline, um, kind of gets beat down a little bit. You know, your focus starts to wane after a while. You're like, Ooh, link. Um, but Nicole, you've talked about, um, sort of having like a ranking process or prioritizing. So when you are going. To your, you know, you've done your personal stuff in the morning, taking care of yourself, health and wellness.

[00:11:47] Kate: All of that. I love that. I do that too. It's the first thing that I do because there's nothing going to interrupt me from doing that. Um, then, well, there are probably some things, but you know what I mean? Um, and then you sit down and you're looking at your list and you're making sure that you're going to be proactive instead of reactive.

[00:12:04] Kate: Um, are you doing. So do you prioritize your things at that point? So you have 10 things on your list, but you're like, okay, if I'm being realistic and everything, I'd probably get to, uh, four of these, let's say, so then are you like ranking and prioritizing, which of the things you're going to get to in what order at that point?

[00:12:22] Nicole: Yes. And I'm also looking at. Reminding myself of what, what are, what are the bigger goals? Like what are the bigger business goals? What are the bigger life goals that I want to get done? Because that's another thing that's really helps me deal with a to-do list that honestly can be endless and can never get done.

[00:12:44] Nicole: Uh, by the end of the day. So I look at like, well, what do I want to achieve? So let's say for example, like I'm on a real health and wellness kick right now. Um, if I actually put workout on my to-do list and because that is one of the things that I need to do to move that health, health kick goal forward, then if it's not on the list, it won't get done.

[00:13:06] Nicole: Or if it's not on the calendar, it won't get done. And we can talk about how. We are in love with our calendars so much

[00:13:16] Kate: everyone. Yeah. I'm like, Nicole, I will send you an invite.

[00:13:22] Nicole: You know how many times my friends have looked at me, like, I think depending on what kind of space you operate in, if you're like not in, yeah.

[00:13:32] Nicole: In our kind of, I mean, look, there's lots of different spaces where calendars are really important and I'm not just going to say entrepreneurs are the only ones who use calendars, but I've looked at my friends and I said, okay, I'm going to put our weekend walk in the calendar. I'm going to put our dinner date in the calendar.

[00:13:47] Nicole: and they've looked at me. Can't, you just commit that to memory? What's wrong with you?

[00:13:52] Kate: Sometimes I think of like, I think of offering to send people an invite and then I'm like, oh, maybe that would sound kind of weird. You want to do happy hour? Yes. I'll send you an invite. Don't forget!

[00:14:05] Nicole: The calendar. It's not going to happen.

[00:14:07] Nicole: Or if it's not on my list, it's not going to happen. So, yeah. So for me, going back to your question about prioritize. I, I look at the goals that I have, the things that I want to achieve. And if that, if there's an, a task on that list that is moving that goal forward. Yeah, it's important then I don't want to say, yeah, it's important because there's a lot of the things that are important, then I'll make sure that it's bumped up on the priority list.

[00:14:33] Kate: I think that's it good. Check-in for when you think about, okay, if you have a list of 10 things and all those things are important, how on earth are you going to like rank or prioritize them? But I think that your goals are a great check for that is. If you think about, uh, your main business goal right now, or your main health goal right now, or your main relationship goal right now, then you can pretty easily look at a list of 10 different things that you want to do and say which one of these things is going to help me move closer to that.

[00:15:00] Kate: So totally on the same page, I do that with everything. I love the category thing. I do categories for my goals so that I don't feel completely overwhelmed from a question of. What do I want my life to look like? Um, you know, I can say like, what do I want my health to look like? What do I want my relationships to look like?

[00:15:20] Kate: Uh, what do I want my business to look like? And it's kind of makes it like a little bit easier and less overwhelming. And then, like you said, I am just like, My calendar is so important to me because I feel like I would constantly be overwhelmed if not only be for trying to like hold memories in my mind that don't need to be there.

[00:15:42] Kate: Like, I feel like we try and hold so many things in our mind. Right. Like hold a dinner to memory. That's happening five days from now? No, not gonna happen. I will forget that in five minutes, if I don't put it in my calendar because my priority is being present and keeping him in my mind and wedding, my mental bandwidth and my emotions be live right now.

[00:16:07] Kate: So I'm not living at our dinner on Saturday night. Wondering what I'm going to order. Like I'm thinking about the conversation that I'm having with you. And so. That I think that that visualization of having things in your calendar, um, it has been such a huge tool for me to prevent overwhelm because when I can go into my calendar and visually see the time that I've committed, it makes what I say yes to and what I say no to so much simpler.

[00:16:33] Kate: Otherwise I'm just going to over obsess about it. And spiral thinking about whether or not I should say yes or no or something.

[00:16:41] Nicole: Yeah. And that's why I'm like a little bit, you know, there's a bit of goal bashing talk sometimes, you know, goals are overrated. People shouldn't have goals, what's it all for? Be in the present.

[00:16:52] Nicole: And I'm like, well, overwhelm is pretty horrible to deal with. Right. We don't like it. Like, you know, right at the beginning, I'm like, hyper-ventilating and it's like, we fit the solution to that. And it's, you know, a four letter word, like goal. Yeah. Then I'm going to have some goals.

[00:17:09] Kate: Or a however many letter word calendar is exactly

[00:17:14] Nicole: just do that.

[00:17:16] Nicole: And we talk about calendars and dinners. I would get so annoyed with my brother sometimes when he would double. Like I didn't get how people can double book. If you live by a calendar, if you respect the calendar, you will never double book yourself. So I do not agree with anyone who double books themselves and just.

[00:17:39] Kate: Google calendar. All right. So Nicole, I mean, we talk, uh, uh, of course, both of us are very focused on ditching overwhelm on trying to constantly improve our time management skills with things like calendars and sticking closer to our goals and prioritizing and reflecting and learning what we've could maybe do better tomorrow that we didn't do so great today.

[00:18:04] Kate: But of course we've both been and. Positions where we have felt massively overwhelmed. And you know, you talk about the pain of dealing with overwhelm and that is so true. I've been in situations many times and I'm sure those who are listening have been in situations many times where overwhelm can be quite actually debilitating.

[00:18:26] Kate: Um, I think both of us can. Probably share an experience where overwhelm has quite taken over. Um, but what I'd really love to, I mean, I'd love to hear about that time for you, but I also love to hear kind of how you dealt with that.

[00:18:42] Nicole: Yeah. I think I've been thinking a lot about, um, I've been thinking a lot about travel these days, because we have obviously not been able to travel as much.

[00:18:53] Nicole: And I was, I was looking through photos the other day that sort of, I was doing, I was looking through photos, um, from 2017 and when Omar and I had decided to do an eight week while traveling experiment. So the idea was to travel for eight weeks and not skip a beat with the business. Not take time off the business.

[00:19:18] Nicole: Yeah. That lofty.. Very lofty. I knew what we were setting ourselves up for. It

[00:19:28] Kate: all sounds so magical.

[00:19:29] Nicole: It does. Right? The digital nomad. You know, for all intents and purposes, I mean, someone might think that that's ridiculous. How can you travel for eight weeks and keep working? Well, we run a remote business.

[00:19:44] Nicole: Our business is online. Our team is distributed around the world. All we need is a connection to the internet. So how lofty is that? Like, why is that not possible? And. Look, it was possible because we did it and Omar documented it on the The $100 MBA Show podcast. There's a whole eight part series.

[00:20:05] Nicole: Oh. So long ago I think

[00:20:07] Kate: excited to tune into this. I don't feel like I ever listened to that and I want to listen to it and I was so bad.

[00:20:12] Nicole: It's crazy. Cause it's like over a thousand episodes that go and it's like, oh my God. Yeah. Um, he wraps it up in MBA 887 so you can listen to his conclusion and, and go back, you know, those eight episodes.

[00:20:28] Nicole: Yeah, it's, it's, it's great. Because every time we moved cities, he would say, you know where we're at, where we're at and what, and he's, and he's still going ahead with the show. Cause he's cause guess what? We're still working. Right. So he's still recording the podcast, whether we're in Milan, Rome, Florence, Berlin, um, you know, we just, we kept doing our meetings with our team.

[00:20:49] Nicole: We kept doing, you know, checking our inboxes, being there for, you know, the, the things that we had to do. And for the people that we had to be there for, we did interviews. I actually remember, um, John interviewed us as well. We were, yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it was

[00:21:07] Kate: pretty incredible. Yeah. Yeah, I'm in Florence right now, and I'm running my business and I'm enjoying the city.

[00:21:16] Kate: But I mean, I could quite understand that that could maybe feel a bit much when you're like, I, I want to be at this church and looking at the cathedral and the historical stuff and learning all these things and seeing beautiful views and drinking wine and you're drinking wine.

[00:21:38] Nicole: And that's the thing, that's the thing it's like in the end, I didn't like it in the end. It was too overwhelming to actually try and do both. And I came out of that experiment. I came out of that experience. I sure I have great memories. As I said, I was looking at the photos and I was like, oh, look at us in Venice or looking, look at us here, you know, in the Swiss Alps, how amazing I have those fond memories, but I really still remember.

[00:22:07] Nicole: How much I didn't enjoy trying to do both things trying to be there in the city experience like you said, the museums, the cafes, all of the, all of that stuff, all those great immersive experiences and still try and be fully present in the business. Like I do think in the end, there's a lot of things probably that also contribute to whether something like that is going to be, you know, an absolutely successful experience and great.

[00:22:35] Nicole: And you come away with a goal. We, you know, we crushed that. We did, uh, we traveled and we worked at the same time. Cause in, yeah, in hindsight, I suppose you could say we did do that, but how do I feel about it? How was I feeling throughout? And I did. I did feel overwhelmed. I felt, I felt like it was this pressure cooker of trying to do everything I had to do for, for the business and still make sure that I was having an amazing time because when you're traveling, you're supposed to be having an amazing time.

[00:23:02] Nicole: Right. And so in the end it was, it was too much. I realized that that is my, I guess, my unhappiest place when I'm trying to do those two things, um, well, and perfectly. And I realized I would rather just be either completely off from work, um, or at least not set the expectation that I'm still completely on, you know?

[00:23:26] Nicole: Yeah. than try it and than try and do both. But, uh, you know, Omar has maybe a different take on it, but eh, have a listen

[00:23:35] Kate: to tune in to 887 The $100 MBA Show. What about, I know I will be, I'm excited to listen to that episode. Yeah, it's a good one. Oh man, for me, um, I would say it was when we moved to Puerto Rico.

[00:23:55] Kate: Um, in 2016, John and I were living in San Diego it was maybe like mid January. And we have been toying with moving to a zero tax state because California is one of the highest state taxes in the U S. And so that combined with federal, and we were generating a lot of revenue in the business and, and paying a lot in taxes.

[00:24:16] Kate: And so we're like we could check out a zero. Tax state and see what it's like. And we love to travel. And so we were like, no big deal. We'll still be moving around, you know, running our business location, independent unit, bad digital nomad lifestyle. But then we had someone reach out to us actually. So random this guy who had taken some photos for John before Josh Rossi phoned him up and said, I am living in Puerto Rico right now.

[00:24:46] Kate: And they have this incredible tax incentive. If you move your business down here and you have to live here half the year, and there are a few other things, um, why aren't you down here? And John was like, I don't know why I'm not down there. Kate let's move to Puerto Rico. And I was like, oh my goodness. So that that happened in like mid January May 1st we moved to Puerto Rico.

[00:25:07] Kate: So it was like a very fast, um, like speed to implementation. Uh, my entire family and my life is, was in San Diego. Um, you know how I feel about San Diego? It's like, it's my home. Yeah. Um, so that was. Yeah. Yeah. Everything. Yeah. It's where I grew up and my family and my sister and my niece, my nephew, my parents, um, I love the beach.

[00:25:33] Kate: I love, I love so many things about San Diego. So, uh, that in and of itself kind of felt like just a really fast timeline, but John is like a very fast mover where I'm kind of like, let's think about like all the different possibilities and make lists and spreadsheets and Johnson. Let's move to Puerto Rico.

[00:25:54] Nicole: What about just visiting? Was that not an option?

[00:25:57] Kate: I had literally never Puerto Rico before the moment that we landed here with eight suitcases, we sold everything, moved with a put our life in eight suitcases, and it's been such an incredible journey. We're in, we're still in Puerto Rico. Five plus years later.

[00:26:14] Kate: We love it here. Our communities and credit. Yeah. You have a great

[00:26:17] Nicole: life. Yeah. Yeah. And I could see how happy you guys were. Are there and just the community around you. So obviously it worked out.

[00:26:28] Kate: Yeah, honestly, but that whole, I mean, just like the move and coming here and trying to get everything set up and finding a place to live and not knowing the island and not having a community here.

[00:26:40] Kate: Um, all of that. It did feel quite overwhelming and it was kind of an exercise and I'm stretching myself and, um, you know, challenging myself to take that on because it was all quite new for me, um, doing a move. So. You know what actually it wasn't, because it's what I did when we, when I moved to Maine as well.

[00:27:02] Kate: I didn't really know the area. I didn't have a community, any of that, but I had John, so this was a bit different. I was coming here and not knowing anyone and not knowing the island and not really knowing what to expect and, and all of that can be quite overwhelming. So there are times when, when I think back and I'm like, you know, I don't really think I would have done anything different, uh, of the way that we moved and everything.

[00:27:25] Kate: So, you know, I think that. Tests in our life where we're thrown something and the universe is like, let's see how you do with this. And I feel like that was one of those things and I'm incredibly grateful for it. And, and even though, uh, I did feel overwhelmed at the time. Um, I'm very happy with our decision to come.

[00:27:45] Nicole: Yeah. Cause you do learn don't you like? So even though I might say that someone might say, well, didn't you, you know, are you completely ungrateful or unhappy with the decision to see all those places that you saw on, on your, on your eight week trip? No, of course not. But, and I feel really. I learned a lot about what I like and what I don't like or what I can handle or what other factors around my, you know, um, contribute to maybe making that situation a little bit more difficult and another time it might not, you know, if you have different people in place, um, to help delegate, to help to take responsibility, then that eases the burden on, on you.

[00:28:25] Nicole: So. I yeah, like it might be overwhelming, but you can always step back and go, or what did I learn from that time? You know? And there's always something that you can, and you can sometimes, like in your case, I think you, you must have realized, wow, I can just like, that was joking on it. What about I, wasn't joking actually.

[00:28:42] Nicole: Why not try to visit Puerto Rico before you go and live there and then look at you, like you've made this massive transition without doing that. And it's worked out, which is, which is awesome.

[00:28:55] Kate: Uh, it makes you realize how resilient we are, right. And how adaptable we are really too. I mean, you spent those eight weeks and maybe the first week felt like really off and, and weird and awkward and you guys didn't really have the hang of it yet.

[00:29:09] Kate: And then I'm sure weeks two through eight were like, this is what we're doing. Yeah. And, and I think it's the same of like here I am in this brand new place kind of more or less, you know, trying to find my way and find my community and find my new home and all of these things and you figure it out. But I do think that mindset plays such a huge role in that.

[00:29:30] Kate: And I mean, that's also something that I remind myself of, when it comes to overwhelm all the time as that, when I do have those moments, like I mentioned earlier of like, I'll have a, an open week and I'll feel great and I'm accomplishing so much and I'm focused on my goals and I'm being really disciplined.

[00:29:46] Kate: I'm holding myself accountable. I'm reflecting. I have all these lessons learned. And then there are other weeks where I'm like, oh, Ha, but like, I feel like someone threw up all over my calendar, not in, in a very bad way. Um, but I, in those moments, I continue to remind myself in the hopes that I will learn this lesson that I will continue to improve, which I do feel like I am is that I'm the only one in control of my time.

[00:30:14] Kate: Nobody. Else's like forcing things on my calendar. Nobody else has access to my calendar to put those things on it. Every single thing that's there is there because of me and we have to start, I have to start being more conscious of that. And. Don't want a calendar that looks like that, then I need to be a little bit better when I'm in those moments of like being asked to commit to something or when an opportunity comes along or whatever it might be that, you know, I really needed to check myself what I'm saying.

[00:30:46] Kate: Yes. And when I'm saying no to, um, do you find it hard to say no to things?

[00:30:53] Nicole: No. Yes and no. Um, I feel like sometimes, yeah, we'll feel that, that sense of FOMO of, uh, so for example, I always felt this way when I was living in the states that if there was a conference that we were being invited to, or, you know, that was that, oh, we have to go, you know, you have to go to that conference.

[00:31:15] Nicole: But I learnt later on that, you know, and especially when we moved to Australia and then, you know, kind of conferences became a bit off limits, uh, due to the pandemic and all of that, that how much traveling constantly or the, how, you know, going to a conference can really take a lot out of that week, that month.

[00:31:37] Nicole: Um, and so. I'd always have to remind myself, hang on. Like, this is going to take a lot out of me. If I say yes, I might be feeling this inclination to go because of this fear of, I know it's going to be so amazing and there's going to will be these people there and I'll be able to catch up with so-and-so.

[00:31:55] Nicole: But when we did start to say no to things like that, and just put that FOMO aside. And check in with yourself, like, is this really, you know, a good idea? Um, it did feel really good to finally say, oh, I'm glad we didn't go. Um, and I think the more you do that, yeah. The more you do that you realize, oh, okay. It, it becomes something you have to practice and then the more you do it, then you feel like, okay, that feels really good.

[00:32:20] Nicole: I reclaimed my time. I said no to something. Uh, it was hard, but. Yeah, I survived it to say it's okay. That I didn't go to that conference. You know what I mean?

[00:32:30] Kate: Yeah. Yeah. So, I mean, beyond like thinking about, I mean, conferences are a big one, right? Because as you said, it is such a time commitment and you know, oh, the event is from the 24th to the 26th.

[00:32:44] Kate: That's only three days, but you have travel days and then you're prepping to be gone. And then once you get back, you're playing catch up and all of these things, um, what are. What if I were to ask you like, well, Okay, not me because I know you would say yes,

[00:33:03] Nicole: but I can't say no to you...

[00:33:05] Kate: what have you received an email and say, but he is like, Nicole, I love what you guys are doing.

[00:33:10] Kate: Um, we want to run a series of eight webinars with webinar ninja, and, uh, and we want to promote the software to our users. It's your ideal user base. So like, there are a lot of reasons why you might. This, there are also some reasons why you might say now, um, what's kind of, do you have like a checklist that you go through?

[00:33:30] Kate: Like, what are you kind of thinking of when you are deciding whether to say yes or no to something?

[00:33:37] Nicole: Well, there'll be a lot of like, discussion, like who's involved in the, in, in those situations. So if it's not just me, it's, you know, it's Omar and who else is involved on the team. So I think sometimes we forget about how other people get involved and other people's time gets sucked into it.

[00:33:52] Nicole: Yeah kind of exponentially kind of grows the commitment of, of that task. That, that, that, that requests, that project.

[00:34:02] Kate: I also like about goals too, right? I mean, if you can think about like, oh, is it a goal for us to like, be in partnerships right now? Or is it a goal? To get in front of a new audience right now.

[00:34:14] Kate: And that can also be incredibly helpful too. Right. Just checking back in with your goals.

[00:34:19] Nicole: I think that's one of the things that I've really committed to and, you know, again, it goes back to, I don't like it where people go bash because it really is helpful, um, with determining what you decided to pick up and what you decide to say yes.

[00:34:33] Nicole: And what you decide to say, say no to. So. Something that we've committed to, that we know is going to move the needle in one area, um, or escape contributes to that goal. Then, then it's a hell. Yeah. I love Derek Sivers I don't know if you know Derek Sivers work. He's gotten think it's a book. Hell yes. Blog.

[00:34:52] Nicole: I don't know. I've looked at like a few of the blog posts on, on, on his, on his site. Um, if it's not a Hell Yeah! then it should be a no. Um, because there are so many things that will feel like that's important. That's great. That's a great idea. And so many things can be a great idea, but we just have to be realistic.

[00:35:13] Nicole: And in the moment it's hard to catch yourself. It is, you've really gotta be disciplined to say. And that's where visualizations of like a calendar can, can, you know, be helpful. Who else is involved? Don't make just a decision and say yes to something. When you realized there's going to be other people that are impacted by this.

[00:35:35] Kate: Yeah, definitely one of my favorite kind of like scripts or go go tos because I always, I find myself feeling bad or like, awkward about like how I'm going to answer. And sometimes when you're face-to-face with someone, especially, or even like on a phone chat or something, it can be kind of like an awkward, um, Moment when you're suddenly like it's silent and the next response, presumably, is you either saying yes or no and saying no, would be like really weird or even constructed that way sometimes, right?

[00:36:06] Kate: Oh yes. My, my strategy, my script, my go-to is, let me check my calendar. Which is what I'm actually going to do because I live by my calendar and get back to you on that. And I think that that can be so helpful to create that space because there are times when we're just not in the right mindset or the right mode or the right frame of mind.

[00:36:28] Kate: And to really be answering that question because we might be really excited about like, whatever just happened. And so we're like, yes, I want to continue this feeling and I'm going to do this and dah, dah, dah, or we might, you know, just be feeling completely overwhelmed. And so we're like, I'm saying no to everything right now.

[00:36:46] Kate: So, you know, I think that that's like, yeah, one of the. To just be able to say, you know what, thank you so much for the invite, the opportunity thinking of me, dah, dah, dah, let me go ahead and check my calendar and I'll get back to you. It gets you off from feeling like you have to say yes or no right then.

[00:37:05] Kate: And

[00:37:05] Nicole: I love that you made me think of like one of my guiding principles. Now it's not, it's maybe not on the positive side. It's maybe on the negative side, but there's a Fe one of my favorite acronyms is H.A.L.T. H A L T and it came out of The Boron Letters by Gary Halbert. I love, this was like the best thing I ever read.

[00:37:26] Nicole: One of the best things I've ever read. And it, and it was referring to making big decisions and never making a big decision when you're one of these things which HALT stands for when you're Hungry, Angry, Lonely or Tired. So when you say, you said like the mindset that you're in, in that moment, so in that moment, you're excited, you're having a great conversation.

[00:37:48] Nicole: Someone's asked you to do something. This is you're caught up in that moment. You would be inclined to say, yes, let's do it. And this kind, this is one of my guiding kind of mantra whatever guiding principles is recognizing what kind of a situation. I mean, it's very simply like if you're going to the supermarket and you are actually hungry, think about the things you put in your cart versus when you're not.

[00:38:13] Kate: So it's like $700 grocery shopping trip

[00:38:16] Nicole: because you're starving. So I'm off that because to me overwhelm is that letter T in HALT it's mental fatigue. So if I'm mentally exhausted, If I'm overwhelmed, it's a form of like mental fatigue and I'm not going to make the best decision. Um, so really like checking in with yourself and having that self-awareness of what am I saying yes to, or no, to in this moment because of my current state of mind, I that's been super,

[00:38:52] Kate: super helpful.

[00:38:53] Kate: Yeah, I can see that I'm going to start using that for sure. Um, well, speaking of best things we've ever read or things that we are obsessed with, I would feel remiss to not mention a book that I have probably read about 13 times now called Essentialism by Greg McKeown. And I could talk about this book forever and ever, and ever.

[00:39:16] Kate: Just so, you know, it's the best book I would highly highly recommend it for time management overwhelm, Essentialism by Greg McKeown.

[00:39:25] Nicole: And oh yeah, I've read that book, but I know you've read it. How many

[00:39:29] Kate: times, so many times I really do think I probably read it 11 times every time I'm feeling like that really anxious, really overwhelmed feeling.

[00:39:37] Kate: I picked that book up and I might not necessarily read it, cover to cover, but I will, you know, I'll just jump in because I can always pick up that book and find like a quick tip or the motivation or inspiration. I need to be like, get back on track.

[00:39:54] Nicole: Yeah. You've inspired me to pick up that book again because I have only read it once, but there's a, there's a visual in there.

[00:40:00] Nicole: There's a few illustrations in that book, from what I remember. And you can correct me if I'm wrong, but there's that one illustration of the circle with, I think its energy in the center of it. And there's the. Pointing out. And there's the really long arrow going out in one direction in a, you know, extended versus these little short arrows that kind of poke out from the circle.

[00:40:22] Nicole: I don't know if I'm explaining it right, but I've, that was such an important visual. It's a great, very, very simple visual to illustrate how. You know, the level of energy and proper attention you can give to so many things versus one thing. Now I know that's a kind of an extreme, I don't, I'd like to actually hear what you think about that, because I do believe you can have multiple things going on and there are people that thrive with having lots of things going on.

[00:40:51] Nicole: And there's the people that say we'll focus on just one thing. And that one thing we'll do it really, really well. I think that's a whole area to discuss in a whole other discussion, but it is powerful and it is very true in that, you know, when you ask spread too thin, That's when we feel overwhelmed because we only have so much energy.

[00:41:10] Nicole: And if it's directed at so many different things, or maybe too many things that more than maybe what we can handle, we're not really probably doing our best work or giving it our best or we're, we will be left, you know, angry, upset, frustrated just from the exhaustion. I don't know. Yeah. Do you remember that illustration?

[00:41:29] Kate: Absolutely. And I think it actually makes me think back to the beginning of this episode, when you were talking about looking at it to do less and feeling like everything was important that everything had to happen right now. I mean, that really is a perfect illustration. Thinking that, you know, everything has to happen right now versus prioritizing and finding the most important thing right now, and then being able to accomplish so much more because of that.

[00:41:54] Kate: Right. Because you're not trying to think about four different things at the same time. You're thinking about one thing. And then thinking about that one thing, you will be able to get to those other three things and that's yeah. I mean, My biggest takeaway from the book and the thing that I remind myself all the time.

[00:42:09] Kate: And he does such a beautiful job of laying this out through many, many, very relatable, like everyday examples. Um, but in essence, essentially, it is that when you say yes to something you are saying no to everything else you could be doing with your time. And I just think that's an incredibly powerful reminder.

[00:42:31] Kate: And especially when it comes to talking about what we say yes to and what we say no to, you know, you really have to check yourself of what you're committing to because when you commit to something you're saying no to everything else you could be doing with your time and, and that space.

[00:42:45] Nicole: oh, that's huge. Oh, we could talk about this for

[00:42:50] Kate: days.

[00:42:51] Kate: days days. Oh, well, Nicole, as we close out, today's chat on overwhelm. We hope that they you've picked up a thing or two that you can carry with you today and moving forward to give you that extra boost of confidence and support where when you need it the most.

[00:43:11] Nicole: And friends, if you're enjoying the podcast, we would love for you to leave us a rating and review on whatever app you're listening to this podcast on.

[00:43:19] Nicole: It would mean the world to us. Give us your thoughts, let us know what you think of the podcast. Thank

[00:43:23] Kate: you so much. Totally agree. We can't wait to hear from you. And until next time here's cheers!