Do I want to start a family?
[00:00:00] Kate: Hey friends, it's Nicole, Kate, your girls from across the globe, Sydney, Australia, and Puerto Rico to be exact. And we are so excited to be sharing this time with you.
[00:00:11] Nicole: Get ready for a candid convo with us, Nicole and Kate throughout this podcast, we'll be sharing our own experiences and thoughts. In the hopes that you'll realize one you're not alone.
[00:00:22] Nicole: And two that honest and open conversations can lead to awesome discoveries shifts in perspectives and energy to move ahead with confidence.
[00:00:31] Kate: That's what real friends do they provide love, support, and space for one another to share without judgment, speak without hesitation, and to learn from each other.
[00:00:40] Kate: Even when we don't agree. And with that, let's dive in. Wow. Friends. Do we ever have a big topic for you today? Nicole and I are very excited to be sharing our own experiences and thoughts and the grappling that we've both done in different ways around the topic and decision on whether or not to start a family.
[00:01:07] Kate: Up top before we dive in, we want to make sure and point out that this episode is purely sharing our own experiences and feelings on the topic of whether or not to have children. And we definitely both recognize, and our hearts go out to all of the moms and dads and families out there who are faced with infertility, who have suffered through the.
[00:01:32] Kate: Unimaginable pain of losing a child and well, neither myself nor Nicole have experienced this ourselves. We, again, just wanted to say up top, our hearts go out to you and this episode, and really this podcast overall is meant to start having these conversations in a very open and honest manner so that we can start to understand support and love each other, in the best way that we can.
[00:01:58] Kate: All right, here we go. Why don't you go ahead and share why you thought that opening up with this topic would be a great start for us.
[00:02:07] Nicole: I think as women, no matter what decade in your life, you're in, I feel like that the question of family and maybe the struggle or the decision around it is something. Is always in the recess of your mind, like it's, it's in the back of your mind at different points in your life and navigating that journey of coming to a conclusion of whether you are going to have children, whether you going to get married and all of that, that journey can be so different for everyone.
[00:02:39] Nicole: And you can have very different outcomes. And I feel like you and I, in this case have very different decisions that we've made about not having children and not having children. So I thought sharing that experience of what it's like to navigate that journey, um, is interesting and can be helpful. And sometimes I feel like we do it in a way that's.
[00:03:04] Nicole: We're not conscious of it. And I think when I, I mean, I don't know if you've been sharing the fact that we started this podcast with other people, but I have, I been so excited about it. And when I shared it with my brother, um, and he said, well, what are you going to talk about? And I said, well, the first topic is going to be about family.
[00:03:21] Nicole: And he's like, oh, that sounds interesting. Uh, and then he started to share with me... Something that really surprised me. And he said, I think it would be interesting if you talked about your struggle with deciding to not have children. And I was like, well, what do you mean? And he said, I observed that journey with you.
[00:03:43] Nicole: I saw you struggling. I saw that whole decision making process and that kind of internal, um, grappling with like, should I do this? You know? And I'll share like how, you know, I came to decide to not have children. And he just surprised me. I was like, I wasn't aware that he, that he saw that in him. You know, I thought it was just something that I kept to myself and I think so why is it important to share with other people?
[00:04:12] Nicole: I think these kinds of thought processes, we do keep to ourselves maybe a lot of the time. And when we do share it with other people, it kind of unlocks, how do I say this? It kind of unlocks
[00:04:24] Kate: like maybe like a, a deeper understanding or a relate-ability. I mean, I know for me. There was a time in my life where I thought that I was not going to have kids.
[00:04:39] Kate: And I, it made me uncomfortable. Anytime somebody asked me about it because I almost felt like I was going to be judged. For saying that I wasn't going to have kids. I mean, I know growing up, like it's such a big part of like this American experience, get married, have kids buy a home, drive a nice car, have a good job.
[00:05:03] Kate: That's so much a part of the culture.
[00:05:07] Nicole: It's so interesting. Cause it is you've, you've talked about how we. There are so many messages, um, that we receive culturally, the way we grow up. And I think that's one of the struggles that I had that, and I think you've picked up on this is that you are supposed to want to have children.
[00:05:24] Nicole: Um, and then when you, if there's an inkling that you don't, that sends you into that thought process and internal struggle of like, oh, well, hang on why this is. And it's a why with like, is this. I shouldn't be thinking this way. Am
[00:05:42] Kate: I making the wrong choice? And yeah, I mean, I wonder too, if that was. You know what?
[00:05:50] Kate: I had like an incredible upbringing. When I think about like my family experience, my parents' marriage, like them. I have one sister, you have a brother. Um, I mean, for me, like I CA I look back at my childhood and I. So incredibly grateful for having supportive, loving parents. My parents are still married to this day.
[00:06:13] Kate: They just celebrated their 50th wedding anniversary last year. Uh, my sister is incredibly supportive. She's my best friend. There's really like nothing that I can look back on to, to say like for, for all intents and purposes, like. I would be like totally for starting a family and having kids given the experience that I had
[00:06:36] Nicole: being one of those younger families, like having done it earlier.
[00:06:40] Nicole: Yeah.
[00:06:41] Kate: Right. Yeah. Well, you know, actually my mom, my mom was 30 when she had my sister, I believe, and I'm two and a half years younger than my sister. She was like 33 when she had me and in her, a, in her, in her day and age,
[00:06:59] Nicole: we're not going to know that
[00:07:01] Kate: that would have been considered quite old to have kids at that time.
[00:07:07] Nicole: My mom was 36. Wow. Okay. So yeah, yeah,
[00:07:11] Kate: yeah. But I, I mean, can you look back on your like childhood or just kind of like how it was presented to you as you were growing up that you think either led you down the path of deciding to not have kids or like, how did that kind of come about
[00:07:28] Nicole: for you? That's so interesting.
[00:07:30] Nicole: Well, because in many ways, I, so I think I had a very different family experience and not that I had a terrible family experience, but you know, my parents ended up divorcing. Um, I don't think they were in a very particularly happy marriage, but it wasn't like our lives were miserable. I mean, You know, and they had the, you know, there were challenging times.
[00:07:52] Nicole: I'm not going to sugar coat it, you know, I'm like, you're very, very fortunate that I consider my brother my best friend, like we're super, super close and in many ways, and I, I suppose this is what surprised me about my kind of journey through the process is that I have. Sense of what family is. I appreciate the concept of family.
[00:08:15] Nicole: I enjoy family time. So I suppose the decision to not have kids and be very okay with that and to make a very final, um, as in last year, having an operation that made a very final and we can get into that. Um, I suppose, do you. Maybe surprised a few people. Um, and I remember in that early conversation, I was saying to you that, you know, that I shared with my brother, he watched me go through that process of aren't I supposed to want to have kids and I supposed to want this.
[00:08:47] Nicole: Is there something like weird about the fact that I don't want to have it. Children. And it's not that I hate children. I've been, gosh, I was a teacher for God's sake and I loved my time teaching. Like I enjoyed the kids actually the most, the most enjoyable thing was actually teaching the kids cause they were sweet and fun, whatever.
[00:09:04] Nicole: I got to see the backs of them when they left home in school was over. But during the day that I was with them, I actually enjoyed my time. So it's not like I don't like children, but I was, I came out so clear of like, no, this is not something that I want to do. Because I do think that your friends and family and society do influence you and that's, that is part of the struggle.
[00:09:26] Nicole: You know, it can be your parents putting that pressure on you. It can be seeing your friends finally having children. And so when you start to see that happen and you may not be conscious of like the fact that this is, you know, really gonna, is really a part of your decision making process coming out the other side and going actually, no.
[00:09:48] Nicole: I'm okay with this. You know, and other people kind of seeing that and feeling like, yeah, I can until she's really sure
[00:09:56] Kate: of this. So it's interesting that you talk about your experience as a teacher and obviously you are around kids and you love being around kids, but do you think that that experience. W is, was a big part of helping you make that decision or like, was there a turning point when you went from maybe two?
[00:10:14] Kate: Okay. No. What was the experience or the thought, or like if you had take yourself back to that moment, do you remember what that was?
[00:10:22] Nicole: Yeah, I think I do. And then I want to ask you the opposite. Like what led you to finally say yes, I do want to have children. I think for me, it was just the slow realization that having children is not a part of my identity.
[00:10:39] Nicole: And I think this is kind of the struggle that women have that motherhood. And because you can, therefore, you, you should being comfortable with the understanding that this external pressure is literally just society saying, oh, because you should. And because you can, you should. Um, and kind of thinking, well, no, I don't, I don't have to it's, you know, it's just one path in life and I choose another path and I'm okay with that.
[00:11:10] Nicole: I think when I realized that it just made me feel more in tune to just listen to what I really wanted. And I just didn't see myself going down that path because of other, probably life choices. Like starting, you know, a couple of businesses, like traveling, like moving around the world. And it's not that you can't do both.
[00:11:32] Nicole: And I think, oh, we're going to have some conversations about all of that down the line. Can you have it all? Cause I know we've talked about that, but I didn't feel like I wanted to do everything. I didn't feel like I had to and just being totally comfortable with that. That was, it was just clear. Cut.
[00:11:51] Kate: And I, I remember our first conversation on the topic and that day that we were hiking in Puerto Rico.
[00:11:58] Kate: And you asked me, and I probably did kind of like waffle of like, oh, we've talked about it, but we're not really sure yet. Um, that was kind of like my go-to, but I remember you with like such certainty and calm. Saying no, because I asked you the same thing. Are you an Omar thinking about having kids and um, you said, no, we're not, Nope.
[00:12:21] Kate: We're not going to. And I thought, like I admired that because I think that it takes courage and confidence and a lot too. And that's okay. I think what I struggled with the most for a long time is like, I was almost afraid to make one decision or the other, because it felt. I just didn't feel like I was there yet.
[00:12:41] Kate: I didn't feel like I knew one way or the other, but I, I did admire and I do admire that you have certainty around it and that if it's not a part of your identity and it doesn't fit into your life and what you want for it, like no external pressure should ever. Put something like that on you. Um, so I commend you for that big time and I will turn the tables and answer for me as well.
[00:13:05] Kate: But I also think something interesting when we talk about a topic like this is of course, like your one side of the marriage of the relationship. So was there ever a time that you and Omar, uh, didn't agree on what that path was going to look like? Oh,
[00:13:22] Nicole: I think that probably has made it easier by the fact that we both do agree, because I do think that can, that can be such a tough spot to be in when, you know, when it's just, when one person really wants to have children and the other person doesn't.
[00:13:37] Nicole: So I suppose I got very lucky there in that we're both on the same page and you know, that easy check. I don't know how much it would have. Uh, you know, I, I can't say, I don't know how much it would have influenced me because, um, well, you know, this is my second marriage. So here we go for talking about the family and marriages.
[00:13:56] Nicole: Um, but even in my, in my first marriage, it was something that I don't think. It's crazy. I just don't feel like the other person would have influenced me. I feel like it was ultimately my decision and I don't think that's the same for a lot of women. I think it can be tough if you do have, and I, it pains me if I say.
[00:14:19] Nicole: Any situation where I feel like the pressure is coming from the other side and I'm like, oh no, this is your decision and your decision only. But, you know, I know there's so many factors. I mean, I could probably change my mind on that and, you know, prepared to be wrong. She'll probably say on all of these conversations, disclaimer, I'm always prepared to be in my mind, I reserve the right to change my mind.
[00:14:40] Nicole: Well, there's no going back for me, but, um, um, yeah, so in, in my case there was no time. There was no time. We didn't see eye to eye on this. So I suppose for you, is that part of the coming to the decision to have children with John?
[00:14:58] Kate: I feel like the number of conversations that John and I have had about having children.
[00:15:03] Kate: Um, we've always just given each other respect and space for the fact that maybe, I don't think either of us were super clear on it. Period of time for a stretch of time wherein we kept very open communication about it. Like, how are you feeling about it now? And I'm talking over years. I mean, John and I have been together for over 10 years and it has been a conversation all throughout our relationship.
[00:15:32] Kate: And I think that there was a time in our relationship where both of us were like a hundred percent. We want to have kids. Then I do think that there was a period of our relationship where both of us were really enjoying the freedoms and the ability to do all the things that you said. I mean, we were starting a business together with which felt like, you know, having a child together, this thing that we're trying to grow and nurture and pay a lot of attention to.
[00:15:58] Kate: And in a lot of ways, you know, Big sacrifices in our lives to be able to grow the business that we have today. And I think that a lot of that can be paralleled with the responsibility and what you, what you commit to when you have a child. And I think that us starting our business. As both uncovering and having the freedom, the financial freedom and the location freedom and the time freedom to be able to start traveling the way that we've done.
[00:16:26] Kate: John and I have taken 90 day trips throughout Europe where we just, you know, I, like you said, I do believe that that's totally possible with a child, but you have to want that. With a child. And at that time we wanted a 90 day trip in Europe with the two of us to be able to at the drop of a hat, go do whatever we wanted without thinking about nap times or, you know, any of that.
[00:16:51] Kate: So there was absolutely a time in our relationship and a time in my life where I was, uh, I knew for a fact that I didn't want a child. Right. Then again, I don't know that I've ever been in a, in a space where I'm like, I am having kids no matter what, or I do not want to have kids. I've always kind of toed that line of I'm open to it.
[00:17:12] Kate: And I can see wanting that. And I say that up until about a year ago when John and I did have the conversation and both decided that, yes, we do want to try and have children. Of course, both of us are. Eyes wide open to the fact that I'm 38 right now, John is going to be 41 and neither of us have ever tried to have a child before.
[00:17:35] Kate: So, you know, we're going to try and, um, hopefully that will happen for us. And.
[00:17:42] Nicole: And you're going to have a beautiful, beautiful child when you do. Yeah. Oh gosh, no, I think you and John and I'm gonna, you know, make beautiful parents. I know that for sure. I know you both very well. And so there's so many things like I want to talk about, I feel like this is why this conversation was just so appealing to me to have this as a, as an opener, because a couple of things that you said just made me think about that constant tie that we have as women to always.
[00:18:11] Nicole: Have motherhood or S or an excuse or an explanation for whether to have a child or not have a child. And one of those things is re referring to the business as a baby, because people do call a business over or equate having a business in the stages of a business, like raising a child, the responsibilities.
[00:18:30] Nicole: So it's just interesting that when people would ask me, I would say, oh, you know, the business is my baby. So that's one thing like this constant need to justify. Um, even in my resolute, I'm so happy with my decision. I still feel the need to. Pull it back to something that people can, um, you know, I say, okay, instead of a baby is a business, I get it.
[00:18:51] Nicole: That's the choice. Right. That's one thing. And then the other thing you touched on, I felt it was really interesting going back to how we grew up and you know, what the expectations were is that sense of the maternal instinct. And I'm kind of, you know, I feel like you and I, a very emotional people, but at the same time, you know, with our businesses, we make very rational, logical decisions and we problem solve in very rational, logical ways.
[00:19:17] Nicole: So you've been talking about you and John deciding this and talking about this, I'm curious to ask you, cause I don't know. I don't know if I've ever asked you that sense of the maternal instinct did, is that something you felt came with this decision? Cause that's what I thought as a, as a growing up as a teenager in my twenties.
[00:19:36] Nicole: Oh, that's when I'll know, I'll have a kid because it'll happen naturally. Right. I'll want to have it. And that never kicked in
[00:19:43] Kate: that. I'm so glad that you brought that up because I feel when I was younger, And, um, all, all of my closest girlfriends like that, I grew up with got married and had kids, you know, my sister got married and they started, they had kids shortly after they got married.
[00:20:01] Kate: My best friend got married. And then, um, they've been, they were trying to, they did have some fertility struggles, but did end up getting pregnant and having a kid. And then my other best girlfriend. Everybody, you know, I watched all my friends get married at 22, 23 years old. You know, I was kinda thinking like, am I not on the right track right now?
[00:20:20] Kate: Like everyone else getting married and like talking about having kids. And I was nowhere near that. So when, when all of my friends did start having kids, they had that maternal instinct, like they were ready to have kids. And I had not felt that up to that point in my life. So again, I start thinking like, Oh, okay.
[00:20:41] Kate: All of my friends that I've just shared, like so many life experiences with are going off in a totally different direction than, than me and I was incredibly happy for them obviously and supportive and everything. But again, I kept thinking like I haven't had that. So then fast forward five years, I still hadn't had that feeling.
[00:21:02] Kate: And then I'm thinking like, does this mean that I'm not meant to have kids because. I have this feeling yet. And everybody that I talked to that has kids seem to have like, had this feeling that it was time and their, their ovaries were ready. And like all of these things that people say about like when they knew that they already have, because I hadn't felt any of that.
[00:21:24] Kate: So sometimes I kind of wonder if like, it wasn't a big part of me that was thinking like, okay, I'm not, I'm not having any of these cues. So does that mean. Maybe I'm not meant to have kids, but I will say over the past couple of years, and, and I think that a lot of this kind of led up to my decision to of being very confident in the fact that I do want to try and start a family.
[00:21:52] Kate: As I talked about like all those life experiences and things that John and I have done together. And during that time, I knew that it was right for us to be doing that together without children in the picture. And I got to a point where I felt like I had experienced so much and lived so much that I couldn't imagine.
[00:22:16] Kate: Not being able to share that with a family. And it was at that point that I started feeling this like pull of if I want to share these experiences with John, of course, but if us as a married couple or a couple, even if we decided not to get married, um, if we want to share this with someone else, that kind of seemed like the natural.
[00:22:40] Kate: Next decision is that we would share it with a family by having children. And I think that that was really like the turning point for me.
[00:22:49] Nicole: Yeah. So in, in a way, I think the fact that you said it was a natural feeling in a way that's probably your maternal or in some sort of natural instinct, because. It's interesting.
[00:23:01] Nicole: You say that it's natural to share it with someone else and to want to have that experience where, and I can be, we can be very similar, have very similar life experiences or have similar ambitions and goals in our life. And yet for me, it just doesn't feel right. Something that I want to do. And I'm okay with that.
[00:23:21] Nicole: And I suppose, like, you know, I hinted to the fact that the decision is obviously now very much final by having to a year, to this day, it will be a year since I've had my hysterectomy. And up with that guys, here we go. This is how deep these conversations are going to go. Um, it was so interesting that process now, and just really, you know, For context, it was a medical reason to do it.
[00:23:50] Nicole: And part of when I was doing my research to make that decision and part of like the conversations with the doctor and all of that were around that. Your uterus is connected to your identity as a woman, and it's this natural part of you. And without it you'll somehow, which, you know, came up a lot in, when I was doing my research and reading about other women's experiences, that if they removed their uterus, it would somehow affect their sense of womanhood and identity.
[00:24:27] Nicole: And that completely did not resonate with me. And I, I mean, I, I laugh maybe nervously about it, but it's not like for whatever we define as, you know, femininity and being a woman I'm very comfortable with all of that. I've never felt, not feeling female, not feeling, being a woman, right. From my own definition, whatever that means.
[00:24:51] Nicole: And the fact that I just didn't resonate with them. It just was really interesting to me. It's like, I'm okay with that. This thing is not functioning. It's not doing anything. I don't need it. And so if I'm going to be healthier and feel a lot better without it, then yes, of course. Why would I not? But I guess that's that the whole process really as that connection and that struggle too.
[00:25:20] Nicole: Having a child being a part of your identity. And as soon as you disconnect from that, it just makes the decision so much easier. And I don't feel less of a woman. I don't feel like my value and my contributions to the world and what I'll leave behind. These are all reasons. I think that come up when, when we, we, you know, when we, where we're having these discussions, like, what do you want to leave behind?
[00:25:45] Nicole: And, you know, where's your value come from? To me, they're not connected to them. You know, and I think this is why this conversation, I don't have the answer. I mean, I don't think this is about us having this conversations about having the answer. It's just this conversation that is important to have, and to just be open about the fact that you might have a very different perspective, you might be in contradiction to what a lot of those messages are from our families, from, you know, society from our friends.
[00:26:16] Nicole: If you don't resonate with that, it's okay. I don't feel like. There's anything wrong, but a lot of that struggle sometimes is that you might feel like there's something wrong, or I shouldn't be thinking like this. I sh I should be feeling this natural instinct.
[00:26:31] Kate: Yeah. Or to your point that like you, either you deciding to have kids or not have kids would somehow.
[00:26:39] Kate: Be an indication of like your value or your worth and society, or to your family, the
[00:26:46] Nicole: perception too, in say the corporate world, you know, whether it's Australia and the states is that if you're a CEO, female CEO and. There is a different perception to a female CEO with children versus a female CEO without children.
[00:27:03] Nicole: And the understanding is that it's the slog and the climb to get there is a lot harder and, and I'm not here to say that it's not, but there is a value placed on. The woman with all her accomplishments, having children versus with all her accomplishments and not having children. I think that's interesting.
[00:27:25] Nicole: That's probably something that I still kind of think about and, and, and, and grapple with. And, yeah, it's interesting to talk about this with other women.
[00:27:36] Kate: Well, and I wonder too, how we might subconsciously even play into it ourselves. And I mean, I'll speak for myself. I mean, I've had conversations with entrepreneurs who are running like these incredible businesses and they have small kids at home.
[00:27:50] Kate: And I am just like, beyond impressed. I'm beyond impressed for anyone who can start and grow a successful business, regardless of your age, gender color. Like any of it. But I will say when I see a mother running a business and again, subconsciously even the fact that we're talking about it right now is bringing it to a conscious level.
[00:28:17] Kate: But you know, not often do I have a conversation with a woman just like out of the blue, be like, You are so incredible for starting and growing this amazing business. I don't know. I guess I do, because there are a lot of incredible women running incredible businesses, but yeah, I do feel like if I'm, if I'm speaking to a mother who mentioned that, like her two year old is down for a nap right now, and that's the time that she has to do a podcast episode or whatever it might be.
[00:28:48] Kate: Wow. You're making it happen.
[00:28:50] Nicole: Yeah. But I'm with you, you know, I think this is kind of where I feel the next evolution is for me in my coming to terms with all this, because I'm with you. I see these women as super women. I feel so much respect and so much. Admirations like I could, oh, I didn't do that. I chose not to do that.
[00:29:09] Nicole: I could never do that. And yet there's something inside me that feels like. Not that it's not right. Or it's, you know, it's that extra value or being more valuable because you're the mother. Or a mother. And I know this is like a really, it could be so overdue interpretations, right. And I don't want to misspeak in any way.
[00:29:36] Nicole: Um, but I I'm with you. Like, I came very much to be very comfortable with the decision and happy with my choice to not go down this path and to do the things I want to achieve in life. You know, to, to build our businesses and be dedicated to that and, and, and everything else that I want to, you know, tick off my list.
[00:29:58] Nicole: Yeah. I suppose where I haven't crossed the line is does society, I suppose, place more value on your accomplishments on, you know, The legacy you've left if you've also chosen to have children. And I think that's interesting.
[00:30:19] Kate: Yeah. Interesting. And just like, even a deeper, like more, uh, emotional thought to place on it is, does that matter for you and your life?
[00:30:32] Kate: Right. I mean, I think just for anyone tuning in, and I know that this has just been my like overall kind of experience, and I'm so grateful for the conversations that we've had about it. And I've had these conversations with, it seems like a lot of people now, which, which I appreciate because. I think it really goes to show you the more you talk about it and the more you hear different perspectives and where different people are coming from in their life and their experiences and what they want their life to look like and what they want their future to look like is that there is no right or wrong answer.
[00:31:07] Kate: This is the beauty of like being an individual and making our own choices. And for both of us, I'll only speak for myself. But I think this is true for both of us is that this is like an ever evolving, uh, Experience of gaining confidence and like being resolute in our decisions and owning those decisions and knowing that we're on the right path.
[00:31:32] Nicole: Yeah. And it's that the, as you grow and you develop that confidence and as you, you know, Talk about it more and grapple with it more. I think being able to see, understand where you've actually been able to shut out those external influences as external pressures, as external stories, messages, anything that's kind of tied up with this decision and really come to terms with it.
[00:32:00] Nicole: What do I want? What feels right for me? I think where the work is, is when we start to have to justify. And like I said before, earlier on it's like when I have to refer to my business as the baby, why do I do that? Like, I don't even know why I do that, but obviously subconsciously something is telling me that that is how I have to explain the situation.
[00:32:23] Nicole: It's just, yeah, a very real conversation and, um, and people can relate to it in, in different ways and at different points in your time, you're going to have a different, um, response or a different reaction to
[00:32:36] Kate: definitely, I certainly know that's been my experience. Well,
[00:32:40] Nicole: Kate, I'm really glad, I mean, six years in our friendship.
[00:32:44] Nicole: And I know we've talked about this in various capacities, but I don't think we've ever explored it from
[00:32:50] Kate: all of these. No, it was really great to chat it out. I feel the same of just, you know, I got to. Learn a lot more. I feel like we definitely went deeper in this conversation than we have. Um, and just the solo conversations that we've had uni.
[00:33:05] Kate: So I appreciate that. And as we close out, today's chat that our listeners were able to pick up a thing or two, even if that is just the thought that. You know, it's wherever you're at right now. It's okay. You don't have to be feeling a certain way or feeling like you're behind or feeling like you're ahead.
[00:33:25] Kate: I believe that we are exactly where we need to be. You know, whether this conversation has helped you realize that, or you already knew that, and we're giving you a little extra boost of confidence and support. That's what we're here for. Don't forget to hit subscribe in apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
[00:33:46] Kate: So you don't miss a single episode. We've got a lot of great content coming your way. And again, we appreciate you spending some time with us today until next time friends.
