Nicole & Kate Can Relate

[00:00:00] Kate: Hey friends, it's Nicole and Kate, your girls from across the globe, Sydney, Australia, and Puerto Rico to be exact. And we're so excited to be sharing this time with you.

[00:00:10] Nicole: Get ready for a candid convo with us, Nicole and Kate throughout this podcast, we'll be sharing our own experiences and thoughts in the hopes that you realize that one you're not alone.

[00:00:20] Nicole: And two that open and honest convos can lead to awesome discoveries shifts in perspectives and energy to move ahead with confidence

[00:00:27] Kate: Because that's what real friends do they provide love, support, and space for one another to share without judgment, speak, without hesitation, and to learn from each other, even when we don't agree.

[00:00:40] Kate: And with that, let's dive in. Nicole. I'm so excited. Always excited to be on the mic with you having our convos I know both of us anxiously await this time together, so, yay. Welcome.

[00:00:56] Nicole: I always like kind of have this, um, restless sleep the night before I'm like, oh, I'm going to get up and have a conversation with Kate.

[00:01:04] Nicole: So it's yeah. I always get excited.

[00:01:09] Kate: Um, well, I'm excited for our topic today, which is about ambition. And so I thought we'd start things off with, uh, do you consider yourself an ambitious person?

[00:01:23] Nicole: I do. I say that with a bit of hesitation, I'm really excited to talk to you about this because it's one of those things that in some ways I haven't made up my mind

[00:01:33] Nicole: 1000% on, I don't know, I have this. Oh, what's the word ambivalence about ambition?

[00:01:43] Nicole: That's a big word, but yeah, I do feel like I'm an ambitious person. Um, I do think sometimes it has a negative connotation. You know, like we can talk about that. Cause I, I am curious to hear what you think about, you know, if it is, uh, can be perceived as a dirty word overall, I would say I'm proudly ambitious.

[00:02:09] Nicole: Yes.

[00:02:10] Kate: Yeah. I think that I kind of have like the same. I don't know if I want to call it hesitation, but it's just one of those things, which I feel like a lot of the topics that we talk about on this podcast are questions that you don't like find yourself asking yourself every day, day in and day out.

[00:02:29] Kate: Right? I mean, I don't even remember the last time I thought about whether or not I was an ambitious person or not. Um, so it is interesting to really be faced with. It's quite a simple question, but there's a lot that goes into it. And, um, you know, whether you're an ambitious person now, have you always been an ambitious person?

[00:02:49] Kate: Are you ambitious in some areas of your life, but maybe not so much in others. And when I get to thinking of like, All these questions that come up when I think about it. And then it begs the question of, um, well, is it because maybe some areas you're just not as interested in, like where does passion come into play and like so many other things.

[00:03:09] Kate: So I'm really excited for us to dive into all of this, um, today, but so

[00:03:15] Nicole: yeah. Oh, no. And I wanted to give credit to where it's true. Like it's not one of those things that you kind of wake up every day or you think about every day and give credit to one of our listeners who actually posed the question when she was listening to one of our episodes.

[00:03:31] Nicole: And she, um, she then messaged me later and was referring to one of our episodes and enjoying the conversation and, and kind of, you know, commending us, both for being, you know, quite ambitious, you know, driven women had this idea. And then she asked herself the question, am I ambitious? Is it okay to be unambitious?

[00:03:55] Nicole: And then her thought process led her to thinking. Maybe I'm not ambitious in some areas, but I'm really ambitious in other areas. And she gave the example where she's into running and she's a marathon runner. She's run a series of marathons and she's very, very driven in that area of her life. Whereas she's less, you know, you can relate to that.

[00:04:17] Nicole: Right. I can't, but it sounds amazing. But then in other areas in her work life, she feels like she's less ambitious. So I thought this was a really interesting topic because is it okay or is it possible to be ambitious in some areas and not ambitious in others? What do you think?

[00:04:38] Kate: Yeah. I mean, it's funny because when I first, when I first think or hear the question, is it okay to be un ambitious?

[00:04:46] Kate: My immediate just reaction is no, don't like, don't be un ambitious. No, that's not. Okay. But then when you start kind of digging into like, separate areas of your life or different interests or, you know, maybe being ambitious in some areas, but not so much in others. Then I can kind of start to understand, well, if there are areas of my life that I'm not particularly, um, or, or not areas of my life, but maybe things that I do that I'm not super passionate about.

[00:05:24] Kate: Would I find myself or categorize myself as being un ambitious in those areas. Maybe. Um, I'm trying to think of an example, but I generally speaking, I, as you say, I love what you said, what you said, I'm proudly ambitious, but I feel like I'm quite an ambitious person too. I love to do good. And I feel like I do strive to be better.

[00:05:54] Kate: And I'm excited about, I'm excited about the things that I do. Yeah, now I mean, I guess looking back on my life, Maybe there were certain jobs that I didn't really care too much for where my levels of ambition might've tanked a couple of times just because I was, you know, bitter about the fact that I was still working this job that I didn't want to work.

[00:06:21] Kate: And am I going to be, you know, really motivated to be super ambitious in those specific times? Maybe not. But, yeah. So I don't know, I guess, I guess maybe there's can be a bit of like an ebb and flow to that, to where certain times you might find yourself, you know, feeling very motivated and lit up and ambitious and, and other times whether it's because of other life events that are happening or, you know,

[00:06:50] Nicole: Do you think it's a personality trait or do you think it's something you learn?

[00:06:53] Nicole: If you're thinking about ebb and flow and maybe different times in life, does that mean it's something that is dependent on the context you're in or the situation you find yourself, or do you think it's a personality trait?

[00:07:08] Kate: That's such a good question. I don't know if I know.

[00:07:14] Nicole: I don't have the answer either.

[00:07:17] Kate: Um, I feel like I could argue for both. Uh, as we're on the topic is a personality trait of mine.

[00:07:31] Nicole: No, but I see what you mean. I feel like it can be, oh, you know, I'm really thinking out loud here. I feel like it's a personality trait. Hm. Oh. But then it can come from your upbringing.

[00:07:48] Kate: I, you know, when. I often think about stuff in terms of like mindset because of the major mindset shifts that I've had in my life and how those have kind of changed course of maybe where I was headed or what I was focused on or how I was spending my time.

[00:08:09] Kate: And I, I do have a little bit of a hard time thinking that I could ever be okay being unambitious if I were unambitious ambitious, I would really be questioning why I am in that situation. That makes me feel that way. Does that make sense?

[00:08:32] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. I, no, I understand what you're saying. Cause I'm, I agree with you.

[00:08:38] Nicole: The automatic knee jerk reaction. I have, if at that question, is it okay to be unambitious like you it's like, no, it's not. Okay. And why do we feel so strongly about that? Where does that come from? I don't feel like it was ever kind of maybe was something that was instilled from childhood, but it's not like I had exceptional role models that showed me, uh, you know, uh, you know, a definition of like what ambition and what that can lead to can look like. I just feel like it's something that I always felt I want to do better. And that's why. That it's not okay. Because you, like you said, you kind of question like, why are you in that state if you don't want to do better?

[00:09:29] Nicole: Shouldn't we be always trying to improve. I mean, I know that we, people that say no, it's okay. You can be just content with the status quo or where you're at at a certain point. And maybe it is okay. That's why I think this conversation is interesting because I don't know if I have the answer.

[00:09:45] Kate: Yeah, I like that you brought up like content contentedness.

[00:09:50] Kate: Um, because there are certainly been times in my life where I was happy being comfortable and I was happy with the way things were and I didn't necessarily go out of my way to complicate things. Um, But I feel like, again, going back to the mindset thing that was kind of before, I really took ownership of the fact that I was in charge of what happens in my life and you know, how I, I, I read this Tony Robbins quote the other day in and ended up posting on my Instagram.

[00:10:24] Kate: I really like it a lot that, um, "you are not here as a manager of circumstances, you're the architect of your life." And that really speaks to this idea that sure we might be in certain situations at times where being content or lazy or comfortable would certainly come into play. But like, why wouldn't you want to make more of that or change it, or, you know, architect it the way that you, where you do find yourself being ambitious and excited and passionate and all of these things.

[00:11:08] Nicole: Yeah, I think I, yeah, I think why somebody would feel like that is because they would be scared. I think there's a level of. I think when I think about ambition and I think that it can sometimes have this negative connotation or it can be associated with maybe a desire for wealth and greed. I feel like sometimes there is a negative connotation to it.

[00:11:37] Nicole: Right. And I think that probably comes from the fact that. That you might be scared that you won't be able to achieve that. And so it's much easier to put down something or not strive for something. If you're actually afraid that you may not get there, or you may not achieve that thing that you want. I know I didn't explain that very well, but I mean, I think that's

[00:12:03] Kate: no.

[00:12:03] Kate: Oh no, I hear you that, I mean, it kind of like goes to the question of like, how, how would you maybe. Um, alter your levels of ambition in any given situation, because if it were a situation where you're really striving towards something that you do truly want, but you're feeling a bit unambitious about it because of fear or the imposter syndrome or any of these things, then how do you get out of that?

[00:12:37] Kate: Is that then like it's basically fear based? Um, it's your, it's your, um, it's your mask being unambitious then you're like, oh, well I didn't, I didn't even try, so I didn't lose or right. Yeah. Um, I'm not wrong because I didn't even say anything. Yeah. Oh man. I know. Yeah. So relate to that. That was me 110% to a T for a really long time.

[00:13:08] Kate: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:09] Nicole: Yeah, definitely. So what changed for you? So, cause you said like you're unapologetically ambitious now and you can't imagine not being, what, what changed for you?

[00:13:20] Kate: I think, I think a majority of it was that mindset shift and to expecting for something to be given to me versus understanding that that's not how the world works and that if I want something that I'm in charge of going out and getting it, in which case.

[00:13:39] Kate: You know, if we put this to like, uh, un ambitious versus ambitious standpoint, um, let's say that I want to run a marathon and like, I can't expect somebody else to train for me right? I mean, if I want to run a marathon, especially if I have maybe, um, a time goal or whatever it might be, then I need to work appropriately towards that goal.

[00:14:07] Kate: Um, Me being in charge of that versus like feeling like outside circumstances or in control of whether or not I can hit that time. I actually did. I ran a half marathon, my most recent and last a couple of years ago, and I had a goal for sub two hours and I was just so convinced and determined and ambitious to hit that goal.

[00:14:39] Kate: And I went into that half marathon knowing it would be my last, just because I was kind of starting to feel a little bit of my age and my training and stuff. Um, I missed it by like 13 seconds or something ridiculous like that. I don't even remember the exact number, but it was by seconds that I missed my goal and I was really disappointed of course. However, I could look back knowing that I did everything that I could and that I worked as hard as possible to. And I, and I did, I finished the race and I felt great. Um, and, and I think that there's a big difference between looking back on like a goal or something that you're stretching for um, and being able to look back and say that I did absolutely everything that I could have to achieve this versus. Oh, um, the reason it didn't work is because of this or because of that, or, or, you know, looking back and thinking like, I didn't try my hardest or I wasn't ambitious the whole way through. Um, so yeah, I mean, I think just that, that sense of control that you're in charge of, of creating your life versus somebody else is in control.

[00:16:07] Nicole: I'm glad you brought up. I remember when you told me that, that story. Well, I remember when you shared that experience, it was a few years ago. It was your last marathon. Maybe not your last one forever, but it was, I remember at the time you said, it. We'll see, exactly. And it's crazy because I actually remember that call. I remember seeing you really disappointed. I kind of had never seen you that disappointed. I remember your face. I remember seeing how disappointed you, were sorry. I'm repeating myself. The point there is that at the time. I didn't understand why you would be that disappointed because I perceived the situation as how awesome that you ran this marathon.

[00:16:56] Nicole: You finished, you, you were describing all the things and the challenges that were happening in that race. I remember something about elbowing people out of the way. It just sounds like something like I could never do. So I really admired you for that. Not in a negative way, but I just remember thinking don't beat yourself up.

[00:17:16] Nicole: You did something so amazing. You shouldn't have an ounce of disappointment and. And I think that was, I don't want to say wrong of me, but I misunderstood the situation. I think this comes down to what I think about a lot is that judgment that comes with perceiving someone as ambitious or when someone's trying to achieve a goal.

[00:17:36] Nicole: I think a lot of the times when you're on the sidelines, you don't really understand what's driving that person. You don't, you might not even understand why it's so important to them and why they might be disappointed when they don't achieve something. And sometimes it can be a negative judgment, like, oh, you should just be happy that you finished the race.

[00:17:52] Nicole: Why aren't you just satisfied with that? And this can be applied to anything. Why aren't you just satisfied that you've made X amount of money or that you've made a, you know, you started a business and you sold that business. Why would you want to start another one? And I'm like, and so I think about that time when I felt like, why don't be disappointed, Kate, you did something awesome.

[00:18:11] Nicole: But I remember you were deeply disappointed. Yeah.

[00:18:15] Kate: I think that brings up such a great point about the judgment around, um, or the miss- perceived, I don't know, misinterpreted. Um, yeah, I've just like, and you brought up like the idea of ambitious people that sometimes it could take on a negative connotation of like, oh, how, like how much is enough for you?

[00:18:43] Kate: And, um, you know, when, when are you ever going to stop? Isn't it enough? And, and all of these things that like, you know, it's kind of. The crabs in a bucket thing where, you know, it keeps getting or tall poppy syndrome or keep getting pulled.. Oh yeah. I, I specifically noted it because I know it's, uh,

[00:19:05] Kate: it did start in New Zealand.

[00:19:06] Kate: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, that you are constantly in, in those, um, Stories or whatever you want to refer to them as the crabs in the bucket or the tall poppy syndrome is that you're constantly being pulled back by people, um, who essentially don't want to see you succeed, but I I've, I've honestly never associated ambition with a negative connotation myself. Um, I've certainly seen some things out there where I'm like, Ooh, I don't know that I would market it that way. Um, but I think that that's a really great point that you brought up as when you're seeing something from the outside and you don't really know the why behind it or the mission, vision, goal, whatever it might be. Some people have reasons for presenting things a certain way to you know, inspire a certain group of people that might not be you. Um, so the way that you are seeing it or taking it in is not how it's intended, because it's not intended for you. You're not the person that they're trying to speak to.

[00:20:30] Kate: If that makes sense. How do you think, have you like oftentimes thought of ambition in a negative way?

[00:20:40] Nicole: Um, maybe growing up, I did. I think there's a perception that comes with yeah trying to accumulate wealth, build a big business that can sometimes just have people think that it's just about the money.

[00:20:57] Nicole: It's just about. Yeah, it was just about the money. I, I know, I feel uncomfortable saying it, but I feel like that's probably where, um, it has a negative or might be power. I don't know. It might be just climbing up to the top. Just thinking like, well, why would you want that? Why wouldn't you just be happy where you're at?

[00:21:19] Nicole: And there's more to life than this, and there's more to life than your career. There's more to life than the business that you're building. And I can see that. I can see that, but again, like you said, it speaks to why we often don't know what the story is. And that's what I've learned to just not assume and not be quick to judge.

[00:21:41] Nicole: Um, I don't know. I think it was Tony Robbins that said this, I don't know. But one of my favorite quotes is someone was accusing so-and-so of being into money. I think it's Tony Robinson. You might know this and he answered. "It's not that I'm into money. It's just that I'm not into poverty." Um, have you heard that?

[00:22:06] Kate: It sounds like something that Tony Robbins would say that's super powerful.

[00:22:13] Nicole: Yeah. Love him or hate him, whatever you think. But that, that quote just speaks to the fact that you don't know someone else's story. And what you may perceive from the outside is, you know, this money hunger or whatever. But if you've been on the other side and you've been poor you've been on the other side where whatever has happened to you and that's driving you to be a bit more ambitious and aspire to more, then you won't know what that's like, or you might not understand. So I can't remember what your question was

[00:22:49] Kate: so well, and not to, not to mention. What he does with his money, that people seem to gloss over.

[00:23:00] Kate: Um, the fact that he's fed like millions of people around the world and has invested money in startup companies who, you know, maybe wouldn't have had a chance otherwise, and, and all these other things, right. It's not just to single him out this, a lot of people that probably take a bad rap for being too ambitious.

[00:23:20] Kate: I'm using air quotes here. I just don't see it. I mean, I think that there are other words that would probably be better suited for what I would perceive the over the top. Um, You know, I think you mentioned greed as like one of the traits or, um, things before. Um, so, well, so back to the initial question was, um, do you feel that you have oftentimes associated ambition with like a negative.

[00:23:58] Kate: Yeah. Connotation given it a negative connotation?

[00:24:02] Nicole: Yeah, I think earlier in my life I did. Um, and I think, you know, becoming an entrepreneur and building WebinarNinja the one hundred dollar MBA and you know, the, what we're trying to do right now, I've, I've, I've changed that mindset because I I don't believe that you can actually I'm, I'm very passionate about building a great product, building something that gives people a lot of value tremendous value helps them in some way. And you can't do that if you're just, I don't believe we can. I could do that and have that drive to constantly improve th this product, if I didn't want it to be better and better, and if I didn't want it to be the best thing it could possibly be. And so I don't perceive ambition negatively now.

[00:24:56] Nicole: Um, but I think I did when I was, when I was younger, I think.

[00:25:01] Kate: Well, and I think that's a good point that you made is that, you know, so much of what we believe or perceive when we're growing up as influenced by the people around us, the, you know, how we learn. And so many other outside factors. Right? And then I feel like now we're at an age where we have the ability to change that perception if we want to.

[00:25:27] Kate: And that's another thing, you know, we talk about these topics and questions and, and have these conversations, but everything changes if your definition of the thing is different right? So we've been talking about ambition as like. Uh, drive and a desire to be better, to create better, to essentially to have like a positive drive in life.

[00:25:51] Kate: And if somebody views ambition as something different than of course everything that we're talking about would maybe be different.

[00:26:00] Nicole: Um, I remember, um, when I was in high school, Being pretty much a student that was just very happy being part of the group, not standing out, uh, just ha I'm, you know, I'm a very kind of social person, team collaborative type of person, never the leader in, in many of these is what I'm trying to say.

[00:26:28] Nicole: And I remember going for. So it was the last year of high school going for, I think you guys refer to it as class president or yeah, for us. It's the school captain. Okay. And I remember going for that saying, okay, I'm going to go in the running for school captain, which was very unlike my personality or the way I perceived myself, or I think any of my friends perceived me

[00:26:59] Nicole: 'cause it's like, I shared this in another episode. I didn't play a team sport. I wasn't that kind of, yeah. Yeah. I wanted to do well in school and I was, you know, a good student and I tried my best, but I didn't want to really always stand out. I don't remember ever wanting to stand out, but for some reason that year, I thought I want to do that.

[00:27:18] Nicole: I'm going to go. And I won.

[00:27:22] Kate: Whoa, that's awesome. I wasn't expecting that. Just the way that you initially presented it.

[00:27:33] Nicole: I wasn't expecting it either at that time. Um, I remember, so I think, I don't know who asked me, why did you do a, why did you go for it? And I remember saying I wanted to make my mum proud. I wanted to show her that I could do something

[00:27:48] Kate: that's sweet.

[00:27:49] Nicole: Achieve something. Yeah. It was sweet. It was sweet, but I really feel like that was a turning point for a real drive for achievement and accomplishment. I felt like. I, you know, something that I almost didn't want to admit. I was afraid to admit, but I was like, no, I want to do better. I want to, I want to, and I, you know, and then in hindsight, what I did as school captain, I don't think it was particularly noteworthy.

[00:28:19] Nicole: I probably didn't do as great a job as I could have done, because I think my focus was like, wow, I did it awesome. Like, I proved that to myself. I can't believe that. I kind of regret what I did with it that year. I probably could have just been a better leader, but I think I was just navigating that, that first kind of experience, really the first kind of experience of really setting my mind to something that is very aspirational at that time.

[00:28:46] Nicole: Like being school captain is like a big deal. And it's like, there's no way I can achieve that, but I'm going to try anyway. And then she was like, okay, cool. I'm done. I think that's probably, probably what happened to the 17 year old nicole was like, okay. Um, and I think this can happen with ambition or how much is enough for people can perceive, like, isn't that enough you did that.

[00:29:09] Nicole: So stop right there. Um, and I think as you get older as you have more of these experiences you realize, and what people may not realize is that once you achieve something and you want to strive for more, you realize that, okay, the limit is not here. The line is not here, it's over there. It's that kind of idea of moving the goalpost in some ways, but it's not because you know what drives you.

[00:29:35] Nicole: It could be different things, but you start to realize there's more, there's more possibility. I don't know where I'm going with that, but I think it's telling you that

[00:29:46] Kate: I love that story. And I think it's a really beautiful example of like what a powerful lesson learned and looking back on that and being able to you know, reflect and say, wow, I had this amazing accomplishment. And in hindsight, I would've loved to do more with it. And now look at all the accomplishments that you've had, where you have been able to do more with it as a result of being able to having that experience and to think that maybe you would not have gone for that experience completely at all.

[00:30:21] Kate: Like not gone out for. School captain. Yeah. Okay. Um,

[00:30:28] Nicole: then Class President is that what it is in the states? Yeah, I think so. Sorry. That's okay.

[00:30:36] Kate: Um, to think that you wouldn't could have potentially not gone out for it out. Oh, like what a loss, right? So much more of a loss than going out for it and not getting it because that would have been great lesson learned.

[00:30:52] Kate: You put yourself out there, you gained a little bit of confidence. You realize that, oh, I don't need to be the person who's never the leader. I can be. Um, to then potentially getting it, which you did and having this great lesson of like, oh, okay, that's not the end goal. Like that is a goal. And now that I achieved it, my next goal is to step into this leadership role and maybe like get some change going in the school that I would like to see, or the, and so, you know, going back to is ambition, uh, or a lack there of fear-based to think of it in those terms, like what a loss to let that hold you back from just trying something and knowing that if you fail, at least you tried. The same with my half marathon, you know, I tried and I did everything I possibly could. And I'm really proud did I did that.

[00:31:52] Kate: I don't have to look back out on it and say, I could have done more or I wish I would have trained longer or any of that. I did all of it. And I'm so proud that I accomplished that. And so, you know, I, I guess I just think, I think of all the times in my life that I've done things or haven't done things because I was afraid of what other people would think.

[00:32:15] Kate: Is it not going to work? Am I going to look stupid? Like so many different things. And like, I just don't want to live life like that anymore now like, yes, please. I want to learn the lessons of it not working because then the next time I can do it better and et cetera, et cetera.

[00:32:33] Nicole: So. I want to go back to my friend's question or our our listen listener friend's question about being unambitious in some areas.

[00:32:44] Nicole: Oh, okay. No. So the question I have for you is, cause you love moderation right? So does this apply to ambition as well? I'm into the tough question,

[00:32:55] Kate: Look at you coming up these sneaky, all this intertwined -edness is coming back on me. Um, moderation in ambition.

[00:33:06] Nicole: That's a good one. Huh?

[00:33:08] Kate: It is, it is a good one because I did claim that I believe everything in moderation, even moderation, but when it comes to pushing yourself to be better, I mean, obviously you need to take care of yourself and could you be so ambitious that you get entirely wrapped up into your point, your job, your like side project, whatever it might be that you start to miss out on the things that you really care about in life? Um, I guess, yes, you probably could be overly ambitious to the point that you're not recognizing or being true or intentional about how you actually want to be living your life. You're letting your ambition take over, I guess, in some ways, so, Hmm. Hmm. I mean, I really think that we should strive to always be better, but yeah, I guess there is a point when it's like, you can't let it take over your what's most important to you. What do you think?

[00:34:20] Nicole: But that's when you, well, that's when you stop to recognize that it's taken over, right. I don't know why I'm, I'm seeing it from like, oh, from the outside, from the sidelines, it could seem like you're overly ambitious and to the, you know, to the detriment of all these other areas in your life, that should be more important.

[00:34:42] Nicole: But if for the individual, that might be the only thing that's important. So there is a level of self-awareness there that you need to recognize, like I am, I am, I don't, I'm trying to say, I think you feel clear on what you want and the, and the goals that you have. And if those things are, those are the important things that you mentioned.

[00:35:09] Nicole: Like, if those things are important, is there a limit then when should there be a limit?

[00:35:15] Kate: Yeah. And, but I feel like that is what is lacking for so many people. And I say that because I was certainly found myself in this situation, you know, a while back, is that, do we truly know what's most important to us or do we just think that.

[00:35:37] Kate: Because if you're just going on the assumption that my business is the most important thing for me right now, because I need to make money to support my family and dah, dah, dah, and you know, one year from now, your, your kids are a year older and your wife hasn't seen you at all. Was your business really the most important thing?

[00:35:56] Kate: And so I don't know that, that we give ourselves fair opportunity to really take a step back. Get super clear on the deep, deep truth of what's most important to us. I think oftentimes we're very surface level with that and to the detriment of what truly is most important to us. And so if you can't step back and give yourself the space to really come up with that, then you'll never be able to hold yourself accountable to it.

[00:36:31] Nicole: Yeah. I no, I agree with you. That's something I do that Omar gets really annoyed. No, I agree with you. I think it's an Australian thing. I agree. I agree with you, but I start the sentence with "no",

[00:36:47] Nicole: and I'm trying to wait. No, you're right.

[00:36:50] Kate: Omar gets annoyed with, or does he get annoyed with

[00:36:53] Kate: something else?

[00:36:54] Nicole: No, he just, he doesn't understand why. I feel like it's an Australian thing to start, like I'm agreeing with you, but I'll start with no, no, no, no. You're right.

[00:37:04] Kate: No, no, you're right.

[00:37:09] Nicole: I know. I agree with you. Um, yeah, I think, I think what you said is so valid and it speaks to how important self-awareness is, because I think what I said could really be taken out of like context. And it's like, oh, ambition and drive at all costs, you know, kind of, you know, and no, you lose where you lose sight of everything else around.

[00:37:37] Nicole: And I, and again, this is why I'm thinking maybe, okay, we, you mentioned business. Um, but you know, if ambition is a personality trait, It can be applied to everything in your life. So that person that is, you know, striving for a great business and, or, uh, excelling in their career, they might they're. If, if they're a naturally driven person who wants to excell you would hope, um, that they wouldn't lose sight of those other areas in life, their family, their friends, the other things that are important to them and ambition can kind of be a sprinkled across all of those areas.

[00:38:17] Nicole: 'cause you it's it's, it's something that is a personality trait. That's why I think it's super important because, um, it can bring positive influence. I can definitely see that it can bring negative, um, can it can, yes. Cause other things in your life to suffer. I can see that because you lose sight of what's important.

[00:38:42] Nicole: But if you don't, then I feel that it can be a super positive trait that you can, as I said, sprinkle across all your areas at different levels.

[00:38:54] Kate: Yes. Yeah, no. So on that point, I do believe that ambition could be a learned. trait as well, because I do think that there are certain circumstances where you might have to just be shown the results of what ambition looks like to be able to say.

[00:39:23] Kate: All right. I'm in I get it.

[00:39:25] Nicole: You're right. You're right. Yes, you're right. It's not. Yeah. So that's yeah. Okay. So maybe saying that it's a personality trait is not cause you're right.

[00:39:35] Kate: It can be, but I feel like now, if we go back to the beginning of the episode, both of us were like, I don't know, but now I'm quite clear about it.

[00:39:50] Nicole: So, yeah. So where did we end up then with our feelings towards ambition?

[00:39:58] Kate: I mean, I feel like if we were to kind of wrap it up, we agree that ambition can certainly be a personality trait that people have. They've learned that as a part of growing up and, and ambition is a big part of their life, always.

[00:40:17] Kate: Also that for people who might not have grown up with examples of what being ambitious looks like, or maybe even have had negative connotations attached to it for a really long time, I do believe that it could be learned, um, once proven that ambition is not. Oh, always a negative thing that it certainly could be if it takes over and takes you away from what's most important in your life.

[00:40:50] Kate: Um, but that overall just strive to be better in everything that you do.

[00:40:57] Nicole: I love how you are able to just summarize all the, what I feel are my wafflings and, and your coherent. Uh, yes. Um, I, yes, I think, I think I've learnt, uh, definitely, uh, appreciate hearing your side of, of, and, and talking this out with you because, um, yeah, it's one of those, uh, areas and one of those topics where I can feel a bit like sometimes people can be judgmental. I can, I've been judgmental probably in the past about what it means. I think it can sometimes stop people from achieving their goals if they're not ambitious, or I feel very passionate about, you know, talking about this and maybe hopefully having, having, just giving it some thought and consideration as to what it actually means and how it can be helpful.

[00:41:56] Nicole: Definitely, definitely also being aware of where it can, uh, you know, be harmful or can cause you to lose sight of what's important. So I don't know if I'm just repeating what you said, but, um, this is, this has been really interesting for me.

[00:42:13] Kate: Yeah. You also did a very amazing job of wrapping up and we hope that you friends feel the same way. So as we close out, today's chat on ambition, we hope that you've picked up a thing or two, you can carry with you today and moving forward to give you that extra boost of confidence and support when you need it the most.

[00:42:40] Nicole: And friends, we'd love to hear what you think about ambition or what you think about this topic, because I still want, you know, I could still talk this one out.

[00:42:53] Nicole: I would still love to hear some more perspectives, more ideas on. You know, ambition can mean to you or has meant to you so you can email us at, Hey@canrelatepodcast.com that's Hey, HEY@canrelatepodcast.com. Kate, and I would love to hear your thoughts and, um, yeah. And we'll definitely reply.

[00:43:17] Kate: 100%. All right, friends until next time.