Age is just a number, right?

Age is a funny thing. For some of us, our age determines a lot: how we dress, how we talk, the things we participate in, and how we think about what’s possible. But should it? In this episode we’ll share our own personal experiences with how we feel at our current age (Nicole at 43 and Kate at 38), what getting older feels (and looks) like for us, how age has changed our perspective on certain things, and - about death.

Kate
00:00:00
Hey friends, it's Nicole and Kate, your girls from across the globe, Sydney, Australia, and Puerto Rico to be exact. And  we're so excited to be sharing this time with you.

Nicole
00:00:11
Get ready for a candid convo with us, Nicole and Kate. Throughout this podcast, we'll be sharing our own experiences and thoughts in the hopes that you realize that one, you're not alone. And two that open and honest convos can lead to awesome discoveries, shifts in perspectives and energy to move ahead with confidence.

Kate
00:00:27
Because that's what real friends do, they provide love, support, and space for one another to share without judgment, speak without hesitation, and to learn from each other, even when we don't agree. And with that, let's dive in.

Kate
00:00:41
All right, Nicole. Oh my goodness. Do we have a doozy on our hands today? We are going to be talking about getting older a topic that many people probably don't love talking about, but we're just going to go ahead and dive on in today. What do you think?

Nicole
00:00:58
Yeah, it's true. Probably. It's not one of the most yeah. Exciting topics, but I think it's one of our constants, right? It's something that we do think about throughout our lives. I'm really excited to talk about this. I think it's, I think it's important and, and I know where different ages I'm 40..3. Oh  my God. I have to think about it. Yeah. I'm 43. Well, cause I always age myself. I always say the age that I'm turning is sooner. Like even as soon as I turn that age, I'm like, okay, I'm next year's age. Which is really weird. So I'm 40, I'm 44. No, I'm 43.

Kate
00:01:39
There you did it.

Nicole
00:01:42
There you go. I did it. And so I want to ask you, do you feel old?

Kate
00:01:48
Well, since you shown your age already, I'm on 38 and I do the exact same thing. Sometimes I have to remember the year that I'm born and then like count myself because I tend to, I feel like once I turned 30, it was kind of, it was different. I didn't, I always use, I remembered my age exactly before I was 30. For some reason, once I turned 30, like when I was 31, 30, 2, 33, like I really had to think about it. I'm 38 now. And I, I don't feel old. I feel awesome. I feel healthy. And like I'm in great shape. And I, I mean, don't get me wrong. There are certain things that remind me that I'm getting older. And I know we'll talk about those a bet, but I don't like wake up with aches and pains. I feel like I do. I'm a very active person and I feel like I'm living a great life.

Kate
00:02:53
I'm so grateful for my health, especially because I've seen and had a lot of friends, family members who have gone through health struggles and challenges and you know, I I'm, I think it makes me extra grateful and aware of the fact that I do feel great. And I'm so appreciative that I don't want to take that for granted because I can see how quickly even someone, my age or younger than me even can, you know, get like crazy news that they never would have expected. And so, yeah, I feel pretty darn awesome. What about you?

Nicole
00:03:31
Yeah. That's like, it's funny that in the, when I asked you, you were like, okay, well now that you've revealed your age, which I think is funny because I don't know about you, but when I grew up, it was one of those things where I dunno, maybe women still do this. They're kind of hesitant to say how old they are. And I think there could be lots of reasons for that, but I don't. I think if, I think in my twenties, I would have probably thought that once I'm in my forties, I feel old. But you said something that makes me think, you know, when you wake up, do you wake up with aches and pains? How do you feel when you wake up in the morning? And so I was thinking, well, do I feel any different now than when I woke up? Like when I was in my thirties or in my twenties, do I have like the same...

Nicole
00:04:19
Cause for me an indicator is how you wake up, how much energy you have. And to be honest, like I have the same level of energy when I wake up when I did in my twenties and my thirties. But having said that I need like, we'll get more tired in the evening. So I feel like I can do I need more sleep now.  Like I think when I was in my twenties, when I was in my thirties, I could probably, if I didn't have enough sleep that night, I'd be fine. Now I'd probably like, oh no, I feel it. That's probably the only difference. But otherwise, like you, I feel like I'm much healthier than when I was in my twenties. Like, I feel like I take care of my health better. I'm far more active. So yeah, those kinds of things where I thought probably my twenties, I would have thought, oh, by the time I get to my forties, I'll wake up with, you know, with those aches and pains. And I won't have as much energy. That's not, that's not the case, which I think is awesome.

Kate
00:05:16
Yeah. I, I do feel though that there are certain things where different activities, right? I mean, like you, when I was in my twenties, you know, I would stay out until like three in the morning and then I wake up at six o'clock and go to work. I don't know how I did that. I did it.

Kate
00:05:35
I could not do that now. So yeah. That's one thing then another thing too is like, I do have weird like health things crop up where I just, I never had that before. So for example, if I go on like a really long run or a tough hike or something like that, maybe it'll be sore little bit longer than I used to be. Right. Or like this morning I was playing tennis and I knew exactly when it happened. Like I, I was sprinting to hit this ball and I hit it like really awkwardly thinking that I could get it back over the net. And like immediately I could feel on my shoulder, like, Ooh, I should not have done that.

Kate
00:06:17
But I think that because of my health and everything and how conscious I am about like stretching and I work out every day and I eat the right foods and all of this stuff, like my body does still recover from it, but I would probably, would've never felt that, you know, maybe 10 years ago, for example, but there are also certain things that kind of, we talked to in an earlier episode about deciding whether or not to have kids. And I've been doing a lot of research on that because John and I have decided to try and have children and a term that keeps popping up because of my age, I'm 38 is that I will have a geriatric pregnancy. And I

Nicole
00:07:02
What is up with that?

Kate
00:07:06
Geriatric pregnancy, that sounds very old. And I do not feel very old. So it's just sometimes terms that are thrown around with age or like being over the hill at what is that 50 that you're like over the hill? I don't even know. You have to get over that. Yeah. But it's just like, that's kind of a ridiculous thing, right. Because 50 years old is not old at all.

Kate
00:07:35
To think that the older we get, cause I'm like you, when I was 20, I was like 40 is so old.

Nicole
00:07:41
Yeah, that, that is a good point. Like I remember thinking, yeah, 40 would be old, but now that I'm in my forties and like sixty, not old. Like my mum just turned 79. I'm like, okay. Maybe 79, 80. Okay. I think that's old, but 60 is not old, but I'm sure like in my thirties I would have thought 60 would be old.

Kate
00:08:00
Yeah the perspective really changes because I, I remember thinking my, my grandparents, like grandparents to me are old. Right. Grandparents, just like, as a term, if you're a grandparent, you're old, I've met so many people who are grandparents now where I'm like, no way, are you a grandparent that you're like way too youthful and young. And, but thinking when I, when my grandparents were still around, they were in their eighties and that seemed really old to me. But now I'm at an age where my parents are like, your mom just turned 79 and my parents are approaching that age. And I'm like, oh my gosh, that it just doesn't. It's like, I haven't caught up to it or something like it doesn't register for me yet that I am now where my parents were when I would think about my grandparents being old. And now my parents are the grandparents. Yeah. Oh gosh. 


Nicole
Interesting. 

Kate
What do you think about like, so I think that there are sometimes assumptions that we make about people in their age. I've found this when the community that we live in, in Palmas Del Mar here in Puerto Rico, I was just chatting with a friend of mine the other day. And I think she might've asked me how old I was, which to your point earlier, I'm very happy to disclose my age. I'm not, I'm proud of it. I'm 38!

Kate
00:09:26
But it's funny because never I've, I guess previously have just tended to always hang out with people who are generally my age. Like, you know, you're in high school and you're in college and you just trend towards you're around people who are by default, your same age here. People are all different ages. Yeah. You know, I have friends who are in their twenties here and I also have friends who are in their sixties are some of our closest neighbors and friends here are in their eighties. They're 86 and 87, but I never hang out with someone who's 25 or 55. And think about the fact that they are 25 or 55. I'm just hanging out with an amazing person who I enjoy spending time with and who I like being around

Nicole
00:10:13
That's in Puerto Rico. But you wouldn't, that's different to maybe when you were hanging when you were in San Diego?

Kate
00:10:20
Well, no, I just think that maybe previously I was just never exposed to hanging out with people of different ages and now I do, but it makes no difference. I never think about it. And I guess maybe I thought that I would think about it. I assume that if I was hanging out with someone who is 50 or 68, I would be like conscious of the fact that I was hanging out with someone who's 50 or 60. And I'm not like I'll spend time with people and I, and age never as a thought. Whereas before I guess I would have thought that it would be, I don't know why I don't, I guess, because we make assumptions that when we're in our thirties that maybe we wouldn't hang out with people in their fifties or in their sixties, like, you know, when you're in high school, like it's not cool to hang out with people, your parents' age, you know, like mom, dad, I don't want to hang out, like get away from me, but I certainly don't feel that way now. I don't know. Did you use to hang out with, like…

Nicole
00:11:19
I think I was in my twenties, I did have friends who were in their thirties and I remember kind of admiring them. There was definitely a difference. I think I was conscious of the fact that they were older, but it didn't impact our friendship. I didn't feel like hanging out wasn't fun or that it was awkward in any way. I suppose sometimes I was reminded that there was an age difference. Maybe they were more established, like they'd already bought a house or they were, you know, in a different point in their careers or those kinds of things reminded me like, oh yeah, there's an age gap and I have to catch up. But, and I feel like now that I'm in my forties, I do have friends like through flamenco, that are younger. And I know that are in their late twenties, which I guess now I'm on the other side of when I was in my twenties, hanging out with people who were in their late thirties or forties and yeah, it, it doesn't, I don't know.

Nicole
00:12:23
I don't think about it too much, which I think is good. I think it's a good thing. Not to think about it, not to sort of like make it like an impediment to being friends just because there is an age gap, but, and I do. Yeah, go ahead. No, I'm sorry. I guess I do sometimes hold myself back. I don't want to be that person that says “ah well, when you get to this age”, like if I do ever catch myself saying stuff like that, it bothers me. It bothers me that I will refer to age because I really don't think it should matter. But I do think as women, we're probably a little bit more aware of it because there are those markers. Like I know when you just be brought up, you know, pregnancy, those things are really kind of markers in a woman's life that are very defined by age.

Nicole
00:13:15
And I would love to kind of be in a world where it doesn't matter where it's, it's, it's cool to get older. Like I do think we, I don't want to start ranting, but I do think there's such an emphasis on youth and in society, in, you know, in media and all the messaging that we get, that youth is so highly valued. And I do think sometimes older people get dismissed and that makes me sad. So I do want to catch myself when I am in the group of people where there are younger people that I don't want to be that person that says, “oh, when you get to my age!” or “that's going to change…!”

Kate
00:13:48
I do think that it's changing a bit versus 20 years ago. I think it's a lot more widely accepted that you would be getting pregnant in your late thirties or into your forties or that, you know, maybe you're going back to get a college degree and you're in your twenties or thirties. Like I do think that that's a little more widely, it's more common, I guess. Or people are just more comfortable talking about it. Maybe. So we hear about it more, but I guess I will say that I was trying to think of times where I've been hanging out with people on. I do notice my age and I guess there are moments when, for example, if I hang out with someone a lot younger than me, I'll think like, oh, look at her. She has no crow's feet at all.

Kate
00:14:39
Or it's a total comparison thing, which I really try not to do. And I'm starting to get quite a bit of gray hair now. And I, I dyed my hair for really long time when I was younger, when I didn't need to. And now that, I guess, according to how you feel about it, like I do kind of need to, if I don't want to have gray hair, which I don't really want to have gray hair, but, but that's the kind of thing too, where sometimes I'll be getting ready and I'll be blow drying my hair and I'll be like, oh man, got to figure out a style that kind of tucks those guys in there.

Nicole
00:15:15
That's so funny. Definitely gray hairs. And one of those things that I go, I suppose, can make you feel old. I remember I started dying my hair when I turned 40. I remember it was the year that I turned 40. Because up until that point, if I did have some gray hairs, I think, I suppose, I suppose like I got my grays a little bit later, but I would pluck them out contrary to what everyone says. Don't pluck them out, you know, whatever seven will come. 

Kate
00:15:41
Oh yeah. Right. That's why, yeah. 

Nicole
00:15:43
Sorry..To do that. And it was fine. I did that for years until it was like, okay, there's way too many. And I remember that year, cause I had always kept my hair natural. I remember thinking, oh, do I want to start dying them? Because I want to cover those grays. Cause what does that say about me? That, that, that says that basically I'm acknowledging now that this is a sign of getting old and I want to cover that up. And I honestly remember kind of debating for a while, going on a, hold off, hold off, don't be worried. And I was like, well, you know what? I actually do want a couple of them. I would feel better if they weren't there. And so, yeah. So I've been now dyeing my hair to cover those grays for the three years now, which, and then, cause it was, I remember thinking, well, how come it's okay for men to have that salt and pepper look like? W why is it so cool for men to go salt and pepper? Right. And for a woman it's like, no, you've got to cover them up. That's a whole other discussion. But that is definitely I suppose. Yeah. A sign of like, okay, maybe now I am getting older.

Kate
00:16:51
Well, I totally had that exact same debate. I'm like, why am I trying to hide who I am at all? But then at the end of the day, I was like, I don't want gray hair.

Kate
00:17:01
That's who I am.

Kate
00:17:02
And I will say, I've seen women with gray hair who I think have absolutely gorgeous hair. But the difference between where I'm at right now is my gray hairs are so random and my hair is dark. So when I have like a patch of gray hair, it does not look like a gorgeous head of gray hair. If all my hair turned gray at once, I might consider rocking it and be like, all right, let's do this. Right. It's like the little patches here and there that I'm kind of like...mmmm I don’t really like that.

Nicole
00:17:38
Does your mum dye her hair? or....

Kate
00:17:42
Yes, she does. 

And my mom is actually one of those people who would just have a head full of beautiful gray hair. My aunt, her sister does, she's got beautiful hair and it's gray and she rocks it. And I love it. My mom really loves being blonde.

Nicole
00:17:58
My mum's, my mum was like an is, is a natural blonde. But now her now she rocks that full gray hair, head of hair. And I remember that she dyed, she would obviously dye her hair blonde. And I remember the day that she stopped and she stopped when she was in her sixties. And then she accepted the fact that, you know what, okay, I'm going to rock this full head of gray hair. It looks great. It was becoming. It was kind of becoming a little bit more on trend too. You would actually see more women. There's this beautiful kind of silvery hair. And I was like, thinking, why did she stop at that time? Like, was this something that said, okay, I'm going to stop trying now? 

Kate
00:18:41
Maybe I wonder if it's like a new level of comfort maybe?

Nicole
00:18:45
Yeah. Yeah. That's a good point. Because I think the older you get, you do start to feel more comfortable in many ways.

Kate
00:18:54
There are certain things that I used to like really worry about when I was 20, where now I'm like, it's really not a big deal. 

Nicole
That's a good point. 

Kate
So I wonder if it is just, you know, like maybe it's a confidence thing.

Nicole
00:19:09
You know, because, and then like, if I think about my mom having stopped dying her hair, she hasn't, it's not like she stopped taking care of herself and doesn't care about looking good, which is, I think one of those other things too, that, that different, right. You can still, you can still accept getting older. You can still be comfortable with, you can still be confident and not worry about the fact that, oh, now I'm getting older, but it doesn't mean you stop like taking care of yourself or wanting to still look good. It's just that, that looking good is a different version. It's now I'm going to rock the gray hair, but I'm still going to take care of like, you know, like for example, my mum doesn't dress old and I think that's another interesting thing. Then do you change the way you dress

Nicole
00:19:51
The older you get, right? She doesn't dress like a grandma, no grandma vibes. Right. Which is interesting. She'll still wear jeans and she'll still actually still get comments about the way she dresses because she still cares about taking care of herself and looking good and feeling good, but she's accepted the fact that, okay, I don't have to cover my hair gray hairs anymore. That's cool. So I think there is that distinction too, that you can still age and feel confident, feel great, but it doesn't mean you stop trying to like, feel good and be healthy and maybe watch your weight or whatever. All of those things.

Kate
00:20:33
Yeah. I definitely agree. I do feel like clothing and the way that you dress. I mean, I certainly think it evolves, right? And there are, there are certain stores that are, maybe they cater to different audiences and as they should, good businesses do cater to specific audiences. But I think the most important part when it comes to just the way that we dress as individuals is that that is, you know, how we feel most comfortable. And it's the vibe and the persona that we want to give off. I mean, I know that I have certainly dressed different over the years. I mean, when I was 20, I was wearing a different style than I wear. Now. Some of that is just purely, that times have changed and that styles have changed. And there seems to be the cycle of, I don't know, however many, every 10 years or something like things start to come back in, but, you know, regardless of what's cool and what's not cool and what's being driven by the media or whatever else, styles that famous people are wearing. Yada yada, yada, I think the most important thing is just, what do you feel great in? What makes you feel confident and, and comfortable? I'm all, I'm such a comfort person. Oh boy. 

But yeah, I, I think that's awesome that your mom has just, it sounds like she's just really comfortable in her style and in her own skin. And that is an amazing place to be.

Nicole
00:22:23
Yeah. I just think it's important. I don't know. I feel like it's important that again, I just, I just look to my mom in this, in this regard, because there's one of those things where I've just felt like she hasn't, as she's gotten older, she hasn't deliberately dressed in an, in a way that makes her look older or feel older or just, she's just dressed the way she feels comfortable and the chosen the things that she likes to wear. And she doesn't look ridiculous. I mean, you know, she doesn't dress inappropriately, but she just doesn't dress like an old person. And I feel like that that's, it's good to be mindful of that to feel like you don't have to subscribe to some sort of age appropriate way of dressing, but there's always these reminders. Like I went to get this really bothered me. I remember when I went to get my eyes tested, you need to get your eyes tested every like two years or whatever, every year.

Nicole
00:23:17
It was like two years had passed. And it was the year that I was turning 40. And it's funny because I only wear glasses for like long distance. Right. It's not a huge prescription, but just when I'm driving, watching movies or whatever. And, and my prescription has been the same for honestly, like 20 years. It started like when I was at uni and then yeah, it's been the same. And I remember going to the optometrist and he looked at my card and I was just about to get you to do the test. And he's like, oh, I see that this is a milestone year for you. And like, it took me a second to realize, oh yeah, yeah, I'm turning 40 this year. Okay. Whatever. he was like, well, you know, so your is being the same, but what happens generally after 40 is that you get more near-sighted or whatever. And I'm like, all right, how about we just do the tests…?

Nicole
00:24:09
...before we make any judgements and assumptions as to what is going to happen. Like for example, Omar is 40 and he does not wear glasses. He does not need glasses. So I remember just being so bothered by that, because again, it was this, this marker of like, oh, now that you're this age, this is going to happen. And it's the same thing with, I suppose, when you're talking about pregnancy right now that you're this age, this is going to happen and I get it. Okay. But there's obviously medical foundations. And I understand that, right? Like if you take a large sample of the population, if they're over 40, maybe they need glasses, whatever. But I was just like, you don't have to do that until yeah...

Kate
00:24:48
There’s a difference of being aware of it and like prescribing it before it even needs to be prescribed.

Nicole
00:24:56
Exactly. That really bothered me.

Kate
00:24:58
Yeah….What, what would you say? So I know we've talked about our, our moms a couple of times, and I feel like over the past, I think part of this maybe has to do with the fact that I've always lived close to my parents. Therefore I've spent a lot of time with them on a very regular basis, but since we moved to Puerto Rico, I still get to see my parents a lot. At least I'd say three to four times a year for at least a week or two weeks. Sometimes even a month. My parents usually come down and stay with us for a month, every April, which is amazing. But so I don't know if it's because of the time that I've had away or, and that's what, you know, exemplifies it. Or if it just truly is part of the aging process, but little things like going for a hike.

Kate
00:25:50
And, and before it was like my mom and dad doing whatever hike I'm doing, and now that's not necessarily the case anymore, or, you know, different activities like going to the waterfall or, or, you know, whatever we might be doing here in Puerto Rico. Just those like random examples. And that's that like, that's been tougher on me than I had expected. And I, I'm not really sure that I had even expected it. It just kind of like, felt like it happened. Have you had, like, do you experience that at all? I know now it's kind of the opposite for you. You were away from your mom for a long time, and now you see her quite often, but have you felt that at all?

Nicole
00:26:31
So you're saying that you never noticed your parents aging until more recently until certain things that you took for granted that you always thought, oh, they can do that. They can go on that long hike. We, you know, that's fine. And then now when you suddenly see them slowing down or not being able to do certain things, you're aware that they're now aging and it's hard. 

Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's definitely something that I've noticed with my mom, her slowing down more recently. One of the funny things is that she's been quite remarkable in the sense that she was always, she's always been actually very kind of youthful sprightly, much more than most people would not age her. You know, her given age, 

Kate
Your mom's a whipper snapper!

Nicole
00:27:24
Yeah. That’s kind of been 



Nicole
00:27:26
a constant in my life with her. Like she, it's ironic because she's older. Like she had me at 36, but people always assume that she was much younger. And you know, the running joke was that she always said that she was 35 and, my brother don't you remember, mum would always say that she's 35. It's like, well, she can't be 35 because we're now 10. And from whatever 13, she... So, because she looked a lot younger, she kind of carried this like I'm still 35, which is okay. Context of her time and upbringing, whatever. But, and that was kind of, you know, until like, even into her sixties, she was still very energetic. She would, I mean, she came to visit us when we were living in New York, her, my brother and her came to visit us and my brother made her walk 50 blocks.

Kate
00:28:16
Whoa. Yeah.

Niclle
00:28:18
This was like, yeah. Eight years ago. Right. So she's almost 70 and she walked 50 blocks in New York. She was exhausted by the end of it as you would be. But I think, you know, since I've came back, I came back to Australia in 2016, I have noticed her slowing down. And I think it was a little bit shocking in the beginning or not shocking, but hard to deal with. But I think, you know, now that I do spend more time, I think when you spend more time, those changes are gradual. I think when you're, you know, like you're saying now that you know, you do see your parents often enough, but those times are maybe there's more time that passes in between. So those changes are going to be more noticeable. I think when there's distance, I think my mom up until the time, even while I was away for like 12 years, I felt like she was the same person. But now that I'm spending more time with her, I do notice those changes. It is hard.



Kate
00:29:20
I just think tooI feel like I worry about my parents and I'm like thinking about, you know, sometimes I am like, now, like, don't do that. You guys need to like that, start thinking about this and this and this. And I'm like, oh, this is like, kind of like a weird role reversal where I feel like I'm like trying to tell my parents what to do, which I, yeah. I don't know. I it's just it's it feels like a different relationship that I hadn't anticipated or prepared for. I guess it's what it, what it really comes down to. So now, I mean, just navigating that is, has been tough, but I mean, my parents are amazing and incredibly supportive. I love spending time with them and it just, it makes me really grateful for the time that I do get to spend with them and all the, all the trips and the things that we have taken already are just, you know, that much more speci al. 

Nicole
00:30:25
Yeah. As you get older, I do think like, even though, like we said, we don't feel old, but that appreciation, that comes as you get older and you do start to realize, cause you do start to see aging parents. So you kind of see like, oh, okay. Things there's an expiration date, you know, or things are not a constant, they're not always going to be the same. So it does change the way you appreciate or spend time with them. And you're more mindful of it. I know that happened to me very clearly being away for like 12 years. And then my dad passing when I was overseas. And that was pretty much a reason to come back to Australia because I was like, well, if I'm going to be abroad and my, one of my parents is going to pass, you know, I don't want that to happen again.

Nicole
00:31:15
So definitely having come back, I am more appreciative of that time that I spend with my mom, even though she's fine, you know, knock on wood, she's healthy. And it definitely those instances, those situations make you kind of yeah, appreciate the time you have and make and force you to have maybe to do different things. Like I decided, okay, I don't want to live overseas anymore. I do want to be closer to home. So it does impact your decisions, knowing that, oh, things are going to end. Things are going to change. Which I think when you're in your twenties, maybe even your thirties, you don't think about that at all.

Kate
00:31:56
Yeah. Yeah. Your perspective and your responsibilities become so much different or I don't want to say when I say responsibilities, I just, I mean, chosen responsibilities, not like feeling like you have to do something, but feeling like you want to be there and a different way. And yeah, that has, I mean, that's been another thing is being in Puerto Rico and being far from my family has also it's it's made me be super intentional and conscious of the time that I do spend to go back home or whenever they want to come down here to have them come down here and stay with us because you know, I know that we won't always have that time. Yeah. 


Nicole
Whew. Oh

Nicole
00:32:43
Yeah. You made me think of a book that I read not too long ago. The title is a little bit it's... “You’re gonna die. - Stay with me - . “You are going to die: A framework for happiness, by Neville Medhora and he's a great copywriter. And Omar was reading this book. And when I saw the book, I was like, oh my God, that's just such a shocking title. What are you reading? And he's like, no, no, no, it's actually really good. It's actually a really positive book. And I was like, okay. And it's a very, very short book. It's like a hundred pages. You can read it in an afternoon. And the idea behind it is that Neville talks about most people, I suppose, think about life as continuing. You don't actually think about that there's an end date. And contrary to this thinking, oh, that's so depressing...

Nicole
00:33:38
Why would I want to think about that? The fact that you realize that there is an end date makes you actually his premise is that it makes you happier, live better and make better decisions. And he likens it to like a vacation. So say for example, you're going to go to Paris and you know, you're going to go to Paris for two days. So the things you might plan in two days are cramming in all the major sites and doing as much as you can in those two days. Versus if you plan to go to Paris for two months, that vacation is going to look very different. And the types of things you plan and organize for that trip are going to be completely different. So those two vacations will look very different, but really the only difference is the length of time. And so the idea being that, and he talks about how he knows, you know, based on life expectancy, when knows when he's going to die and by having that in mind, he makes his choices and he makes different choices, knowing that, you know, it's all going to end one day.

Nicole
00:34:35
Right. Which sounds pretty obvious. But I suppose I can clearly remember not thinking about that. You just always think like, oh, life is just going to go on, right? Like it's just going to continue. I'll tell, I'll sit in that job that I hate or be in a relationship that maybe is not the best for me because it's just going to go on and on and on. And when you when you flip it and you go, actually there is an end, then I think you do make different choices. And I think the example that I mentioned with my dad passing, knowing that, oh, wow, that's, that can happen to my mom at some point too, it will happen to my mom. Not can, it will, then I'm going to come home and I'm going to make sure that I'm closer to her in for the next foreseeable years.

Kate
00:35:23
Yeah, I think that, I think death is absolutely one of those topics that we tend to shy away from because there's a lot of, I mean, it is a known, but I think when we think about death as whole, there are a lot of unknowns and different people have different beliefs about that. And so I do think that it tends to be a non-conversation point.

Nicole
00:35:48
Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Kate
00:35:51
But you know, it's funny that you mentioned that book because it reminds me of this app that John downloaded called “We Croak”, and this app reminds you five times a day, you get a notification. So you talk about the title of that book. This app five times a day sends you a notification that says you are going to die. And it's all based on the principles of like, you know, the Buddhists and believing and the Stoics, like what they wrote about so many times is when you remind yourself in our conscious and our, I guess, okay, with the idea that you are going to die, that gives you your present. And it, and it makes you happy. It makes you happier. And it makes you enjoy things in a different way. And it makes you make different choices to your point when, when we are more aware and appreciate the fact that our time is limited, then we think about spending our time differently than if we just had endless amounts of time.

Kate
00:36:59
And I'm not going to think about death, right? And then another, another book... So, so that app, it gives you the notification, but then it gives you a beautiful quote about living life to its fullest. So there's, it is a very while it sounds not so cool that you get a notification reminding you you're going to die five times a day. It gives you a quote for, you know, inspiration, motivation of being in the present and being so grateful and expressing gratitude for what we have and the fact that we are living right now. And another book that I was reminded of as we're talking about, this is “The Top Five Regrets of the Dying.” Oh, you have you heard of that book? 

Nicole
00:37:39
Yeah. Bronnie Ware. I mean, yeah. Yes, yes.

Kate
00:37:42
And that is, I think another beautiful, just like really quick summation of it. As, as she speaks with a bunch of people in nursing homes who are very close to death and asks them what their regrets are. And then she re she writes this book about it, which I think is honestly quite beautiful because what a gift to know from people who have been through their entire lives and the things that they're thinking and feeling it's absolutely made me think twice about, “oh, no, I'm not going to do that...ta ta ta ta…”. Like, but then to think, I don't want to have regrets. I don't want to regret not doing something major in my life because I was worried about what if? Or what if it doesn't work? Or I have to be in my job because that's what everybody does. It's what everyone does. You like make your own choices and you take your own risks and you face challenges and you overcome them. And to think that we wouldn't be just like so grateful in every single moment, no matter our age, no matter, you know, the experiences that we've had in spite of the experiences that we've had, because I mean, many of life's experiences, all of life life's experiences shape us for who we are and they dictate our future and they mold us and make us better people and all of these things. And it is kind of crazy to think that we wouldn't just be focused on being present and grateful for our life. 



Nicole
00:39:16
Yeah. It took, just took me. So I feel like it's true. Everyone has different experiences. And I feel like as the app you're going to croak and this book, like I only, you know, read this book like a few months ago. And I think up until this point, I had been quite uncomfortable with the idea of death. I almost think it's, like you said, it's such a contradiction and yet it can actually reframe your life and serve you in such a positive way to actually be conscious of it. And I feel like I came to that really quite late. Like I didn't experience death until 2016 cause I didn't have my grandparents around. So I feel like, yeah, in some ways you're a bit more fortunate as tragic and as sad, as hard as, you know, loss is it can serve, you know, in a way that can make you more appreciative. And yeah, I don't want, wanna, yeah...

Kate
00:40:20
Now, I mean, in in summation...

Nicole
00:40:23
Bring it home Kate. 

Kate
00:40:29
We are, we are all getting older. But I do think that a lot of what we've talked about today has kind of, hopefully it has inspired others to think about age and, and to maybe approach it from a different perspective of, you know, there, there are a lot of amazing things in your life, regardless of whether whatever types of health challenges you might be going through, which of course there are plenty and certainly don't want to brush over that by any means. But I think it is important to talk about this kind of stuff and to, to have friends who we feel like we can discuss, like, you know, the struggles of our parents getting older and how that feels and ourselves getting older and whether or not we dye our hair and you know, the types of activities and, and the health and the wellness and like the fitness side of things and keeping ourselves young and in the ways that we know how, and that we are a fully, fully equipped to do in this day and age. So yeah, I hope that those who are tuning in have picked up a thing or two that you feel you can carry with you today and moving forward to give you that extra boost of confidence and support when you need it the most.

Nicole
00:41:46
I loved our conversation today. Didn't know where it was going to go, but I really appreciate being able to talk about these things with you. So friends, if you're enjoying our conversations, we'd love for you to leave us a rating and review on whatever podcast app you're listening to. That would be really, really appreciated.

Kate
00:42:05
All right, friends, and till next time.

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