Ever struggle with confidence? Us too...

Confidence. It’s a sneaky thing. Struggles with confidence have been a part of our lives since… almost as long as we can remember! And we have a feeling that we’re not alone. In this episode we’ll share our own personal experiences and struggles with confidence, decision-making, and how we’ve built confidence in specific areas over time. Because when you put focus and effort towards improving something like confidence, anything is possible.

[00:00:00] Kate: Hey friends, it's Nicole and Kate, your girls from across the globe, Sydney, Australia, and Puerto Rico to be exact. And we're so excited to be sharing this time with you.

[00:00:11] Nicole: Get ready for a candid convo with us, Nicole and Kate throughout this podcast, we'll be sharing our own experiences and thoughts in the hopes that you'll realize that one you're not alone, and two that open and honest convos can lead to awesome discoveries shifts in perspectives and energy to move ahead with confidence.

[00:00:28] Kate: Because that's what real friends do they provide love, support, and space for one another to share without judgment, speak without hesitation and learn from each other, even when we don't agree.

[00:00:40] Kate: And with that, let's dive in. All right friends today, we are going to be talking about a topic that has always been a part of mine in Nicole's lives. Confidence. For me, I've struggled with confidence since I was way younger than I am now. And it wasn't until I attended a transformational training event that I realized how big of an impact bullying and just growing up and life and maturing has had on me.

[00:01:10] Kate: And once I unlocked that little secret, I felt so empowered to start taking charge of my levels of confidence and realizing that if I wanted to feel confident in any given area of my life, all I needed to do was put my focus and effort there, but that doesn't always mean that it's easy. And that's exactly what Nicole and I are going to be talking about today.

[00:01:32] Kate: Navigating confidence or a lack thereof in every area of our lives. So Nicole to kick things off, I thought that it would be cool for us to just kind of get right down to it and maybe give ourselves a score on a scale of 1 to 10 when it comes to different areas of our life and our business. So I'm going to ask you what your level of confidence is 1 to 10.

[00:02:00] Kate: So one being the lowest 10 being the highest in several different areas, and then we can flip the mic. What do you think?

[00:02:08] Nicole: Okay. That sounds like fun.

[00:02:13] Kate: Alright so how confident are you on a scale of one to 10 when it comes to your business abilities?

[00:02:21] Nicole: Ooh, I would say nine years ago. I was a one, but after 9 years in business. I feel like I'm closer to a seven now.

[00:02:32] Kate: Ooh, nice. All right. I don't know. I, I mean, I would give you a higher score because I know you and you're excellent at business, so

[00:02:43] Nicole: Interesting...

[00:02:43] Nicole: Okay.

[00:02:44] Kate: Yeah. I know this actually will, will be quite interesting because I'll be curious to hear what you think about my scores, because we would probably score each other higher than we score ourselves.

[00:02:55] Nicole: Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[00:02:57] Kate: So business abilities, you give yourself a seven and we're speaking like current day.

[00:03:02] Kate: So like how you feel about it right now. We, a little teaser, we will go back and talk about how we felt about these kinds of things. 10 years ago. There should be a shift. Hopefully there's a shift, right? That'd be a shift. Yeah. Um, okay. So your business abilities as seven. What about making big life decisions?

[00:03:25] Nicole: Oh, that's a good one. I feel like I'd give myself a five only because it takes me longer to make the decision than I would like to then I would like it to yeah. Five.

[00:03:37] Kate: Okay. Fair, fair. How about your wardrobe or like sense of style? How would you rate yourself on that?

[00:03:48] Nicole: I'm laughing because with like the first two, I feel like, okay, those things are probably improved as you get older, but I feel like this one I've gone backwards in, like, if you'd talk to me my teaching days where I used to spend ridiculous amounts of money, buying way too many clothes. I probably would have given myself a nine or 10, literally like yeah, 10 years ago. And then I feel like I hit maybe a year ago. I probably hit a point where I was like, I'm going to give myself a three because I'm just in active wear all the time. And this is not the definition of style.

[00:04:21] Kate: A three Nicole, you are so stylish.

[00:04:24] Kate: I feel like every time we get on zoom, I'm just like complimenting you on something amazing that you're wearing. And, you know, we are in like this athlete leisure, it's kind of tough with like wardrobe and style, because I feel like we go through trends and like these time periods where something that you're like, wait, are, are people wearing overalls again?

[00:04:44] Kate: And so I think it just depends on like, you know, your perspective and what your personal style is, but girl, you look good all the time.

[00:04:53] Nicole: Oh, you're sweet.

[00:04:55] Kate: Okay. I've got one more for you. How confident are you on a scale of one to 10 when it comes to your health and wellness?

[00:05:03] Nicole: Oh, my obsession. I'll never give myself a 10.

[00:05:08] Nicole: Um, I think what on a aware...,

[00:05:11] Kate: Why would you never give yourself a 10?

[00:05:13] Nicole: Oh because I always feel like there's a maximum that I want to reach. I know these are like the unrealistic expectations that we put on ourselves in terms of like a self-awareness and feeling like I know when I'm off and when I know I could be in a better state, like I I'm very perceptive.

[00:05:31] Nicole: You know, my own energy levels and how I feel. I'd give myself that a 10 for that, but where I am right now, a yeah seven. Yeah. I've just gone back to, I've had hired a personal trainer in the last two weeks because I'm like, Hey, I'm like slipping into bad habits. I need to get back on track. So yeah, I'm going to give myself a seven.

[00:05:52] Kate: Okay. I definitely give you a higher score than that because I know how hard you work at your health and wellness, but this is why these are like such interesting conversations and even taking a step back. I mean, I don't know about anyone tuning in, but I don't really wake up many mornings and think like, how high am I going to rate myself on a scale this morning of how I feel about my business abilities?

[00:06:14] Kate: However, that's why I think it's so interesting to ask these types of questions and to kind of check in with ourself because there might be areas where you're like, oh yeah, I'm on it. I care about it so much. Yada, yada, yada. But when you. Look at how confident you really feel in that area might not be as high as you would like it to be, right?

[00:06:37] Nicole: Yeah. I think this is actually a really good exercise. Okay. Okay. Your turn now. So one to 10 business abilities.

[00:06:45] Kate: Okay.

[00:06:46] Kate: I will give myself on my business abilities after. Well, just like you, after being in business for nine years, I feel pretty darn good about this. I'm going to give myself an 8.5.

[00:07:00] Nicole: Oh, I love how you're doing the 0.5.

[00:07:02] Nicole: I never even thought of that.

[00:07:06] Nicole: Okay. Okay. I mean, like, I'm going to, I'm like you now I'm like, I reckon you're definitely at least a nine or 10, but anyway. Okay. 8.5 year. So, so we'll, we'll dig into a little bit more later. What about the big life decisions I'm interested in this one. I feel like you're way better at this.

[00:07:23] Kate: Oh, my gosh. I was just going to say, I feel like we are on the same page here because wow.

[00:07:29] Kate: I don't know if I ever told you this Nicole, but the last, so John and I love taking Europe trips in the fall. We usually take them in the fall because it's hurricane season in Puerto Rico. So we figure like let's get out, do our travel and we don't have to sit like refreshing our storm tracker app, wondering whether or not a hurricane is coming.

[00:07:47] Kate: And, um, and so, uh, in 2000 and. 19. We were on a 90 day Europe trip and we prepped it so that we weren't working during our travels. I mean, we are checking it and like keeping the business alive, obviously. Um, but we have such great systems and everything set up and our team is incredible. So anyways, I giving myself that space.

[00:08:12] Kate: I kind of uncovered this whole passion or obsession that I have with decision-making and how I've always struggled with decision-making. I always second guess myself. I'm always going down rabbit holes. And so I kind of, during that trip, I'm like, I'm going to write a book on decision-making I'm launching a podcast on decision-making.

[00:08:36] Kate: Like I was really obsessed with it. And the reason was that I felt like I was not great at it. And I wanted to become better. I wanted to start studying why we have trouble with decision making and like what's going on in our brain. When, why do I have to always second and triple guests myself, it's really annoying.

[00:08:57] Kate: I don't want to do it, but I just feel like it's like a part of my personality anyway. I'm still trying to crack that code. So, I mean, I would say like making big life decisions, I have taken some pretty, um, gutsy leaps in my life. Uh, but I would say overall, probably like a five or a six I'm with you..

[00:09:21] Nicole: Just can't believe what you just shared.

[00:09:23] Nicole: And I'm like, oh my God, I'm the same. That just gave me so much comfort. I am obsessed as well with the process of like making good decisions and then feeling like, do I actually know how to make a decision properly? What are the, you know, the parameters that I set, how do I actually come to the decision?

[00:09:41] Nicole: Do I know it's a good one, the second guessing all of that, that you shared, I'm like, can you please write that book? Because I feel like I would like, yeah. Be the first to read it. Um, it's so interesting. And I think the fact that you gave yourself a five, you gave yourself a five right now. I know the decisions that you've made, the big leaps that you've taken recently.

[00:10:04] Nicole: I think this goes back to us being a little bit hard, on on ourselves. Hey, but we, you know, okay. But this is like a self rating system. Interesting. Very, very interesting. I feel like this could be a whole other topic that I want to explore with you because I think decision-making is one of the most important things.

[00:10:19] Nicole: I think that that is what business is. It's actually just a series of making decisions and solving problems.

[00:10:25] Kate: Absolutely.

[00:10:26] Nicole: Okay. But I don't want to take away from what you give yourself based on your wardrobe and style, my wardrobe and style. Like I am not a super stylish person. Great. Like, I mean, I've done the trunk clubs.

[00:10:43] Kate: I do rent the runway when I'm invited to weddings. I mean, if I open up my closet, I'm like, okay, should I wear? And this actually goes back to the decision making, funny enough, should I wear a black tank top or a white tank top, but you know, it makes it super easy, right. Because in the world of decision-making, you're supposed to give yourself fewer options because then there's no decision to be made.

[00:11:05] Kate: You just like do it. Uh, so yeah, my wardrobe and style, I wish that it was better. It's not, I'm my confidence level on my wardrobe is probably like a two.

[00:11:16] Nicole: Wow. Oh gosh. Do you think like there's a relationship between like yeah. Just what you choose to wear that day or, you know, and then how you actually feel and therefore.

[00:11:31] Nicole: Having an extra giving you that extra layer of confidence. That's interesting. I just remember it. I don't know. I don't want to sidetrack too much, but I remember one of our favorite podcasts, How I Built This Guy, Raz, when he interviewed interviews, um, Barbara Corcoran. She talks about her first days, um, when she was working in real estate in New York.

[00:11:49] Nicole: And I always remember the story where, you know, she's hustling so hard, she's, you know, it's very, very early days for her. And she talks about buying this coat, this winter coat that she spent, she dropped a lot of cash. Do you remember this story?

[00:12:02] Kate: A hundred percent?

[00:12:03] Nicole: Yeah. That coat gave her, like, empowered her to make the deal.

[00:12:11] Nicole: I can't remember. I don't remember the details of it, but I just remember that connection to the way she felt in her new coat, giving her that confidence to, to sell the apartment or whatever that she was showing to the person. I don't know.

[00:12:26] Kate: Yes. I remember that. So clearly listening to that episode and thinking that is so true because.

[00:12:34] Kate: I think that there's a lot to be said of your confidence level, being heightened when you feel amazing. And we have a mutual friend, who's a part of our mastermind who is amazing at all things, wardrobe and style. And I know that she talks about that a lot too, like how it can build your confidence and your energy and everything.

[00:12:53] Kate: And I totally feel that way, even. I mean, I'm getting ready to speak on stage in a couple of years. And, and I'm thinking like, what am I going to wear that I'm going to feel awesome. And, and that like, I can feel super comfortable in and all of these things. So it is interesting to, to kind of try and figure, you know, get into the intricacies of that.

[00:13:17] Kate: Yeah. Big shout

[00:13:18] Nicole: out to Cass from Next Level of Wardrobe. When you mentioned the tank tops, the white or black was like, well, that's part of the core color system and there's a system behind it and it actually works. And so you are implementing that system, which is great. Yes. Thank you, Cass. All right. Um, health and wellness.

[00:13:36] Nicole: Oh my God. You've run marathons. If you don't give yourself like a 27 out of 10, I don't know what I'm going to do here.

[00:13:46] Kate: I do feel quite confident, uh, confident about my health and wellness, but I, I honestly owe a lot of that to John. He really like dives into this like research and next level of.

[00:14:00] Kate: Consciousness with health and wellness. And I have reaped so many benefits because of that. So I do give him a big shout out here, but my health and wellness. And it's funny because you said I can't give myself a 10 here. I actually feel like I can't give myself a 10 because. The, and, and thinking back on me asking you and being shocked that you wouldn't, but now that I'm thinking about it, there's always room for improvement.

[00:14:25] Kate: Right? So I, I would give myself a nine, I feel great about my health and wellness and the steps that I take on a daily basis to just really continue dialing it in and improving and all of that. So nine, because you got to have room to improve.

[00:14:41] Nicole: All right. Well then I'm going to give you a 9.5. I'm going to step in, you've got a dialed in it and you're committed.

[00:14:48] Nicole: You're super committed. Oh, that was fun. Yeah. Good little kind of exercise to apply to it. Yeah. A few other things in life. I enjoyed that, so. Okay.

[00:14:59] Kate: So we talked about multiple areas of kind of business and life. There were, we did a little scale of one to 10. Do you feel like an and I guess we've, we've kind of answered this question just in rating ourselves really?

[00:15:14] Kate: Are there certain areas of your life where you feel your confidence is super, super high and others where it's super low? And I mean, the answer is yes. Right? Because we just revealed that through answering these other questions, but why do you think that is? Why do you think that you're a five with making big decisions, a seven in business?

[00:15:36] Kate: Like how, why do you think that there is such a varying levels?.

[00:15:41] Nicole: I was thinking when we discussed, you know, talking about this topic, I almost, I think I used to feel that confidence was something that you, you were born with. I had this idea that you either had it, or you didn't have it. Like, you'd look at people where you see that they exude all this confidence and it's like, that's just something natural that just comes to them easily.

[00:16:02] Nicole: That's a personality type. And I think there's a lot of room to still learn about this area, but in my own experience and in, you know, in dealing with different levels of confidence in different areas, I do think it's, it's a continuum and I do actually equate it to maybe like a muscle that you have to exercise.

[00:16:24] Nicole: Um, because in all of these. Examples, even that we've looked at today, the more you kind of have, you know, built in, put in the reps, um, have more experience in that area, you know, made a bad decision learnt from that, moved on to the next decision that all comes with. Um, almost exercising a muscle. So I think it, it it's on a continuum.

[00:16:50] Nicole: It's, it's never like you either have it or you don't. And I remember thinking to like, wow, I want to talk about this topic. And. Still going back to the idea that it's like something that you should have, and you should have it early on in life thinking like, wow, I'm in my early forties and I'm still questioning my level of confidence in certain areas.

[00:17:11] Nicole: Like shouldn't I have had it all sorted out by now. And I'm like, I realized that's not the right way, not the, you know, the best way to think about it because it is a continuum and there's an evolution in all of these areas and it's not like, yeah, flicking a switch. I'm confident now. Great. All of a sudden, and I can apply that confidence to all areas of life.

[00:17:32] Nicole: It just doesn't work that way.

[00:17:34] Kate: I totally agree. I mean, I just think that it would be. Unusual and maybe superhuman to just have an equal level of very high confidence in every area of your life. And, and I do think that there's a lot to be said of what you mentioned about the muscles and being exercised.

[00:17:56] Kate: And, you know, when you think of both of us giving a very high score to our business abilities, I mean, of course it's been such a big part of our lives for the last nine years. Um, but when you think about, um, you know, maybe making big life decisions. Sure. We certainly do that. And if you really wanted to like, get granular with it, then perhaps maybe we're making big life decisions every single day without being super conscious of it.

[00:18:22] Kate: Like unintended consequences of the choices that we make. Right. But when you're faced with okay, I'm Kate and I'm 28 years old or whatever, and I'm dating this guy and he's telling me that he's moving across the country and wants to know if I will move to live with him, which actually happened with myself and John.

[00:18:43] Kate: Um, you know, that is a pretty major life decision that I'm faced with. And those are a lot fewer and far between then, okay. I work on my business every single day and I've been doing that for the last nine years. So I think that makes sense. I think that makes sense for sure. And I think it brings up the question too of, you know, if, if we rate ourselves this way, Now then what did that look like?

[00:19:12] Kate: 10 years ago? So if we think about both of us mentioned it, we rate our business abilities very high today because we've been working on that for 10 years, but 10 years ago, both of us would probably say like one, I won't speak for you, but I will give one. Exactly. So can you share a story maybe about like a particular area in your life that might have been, you know, kind of a lower score 10 years ago, but today you feel quite confident about that and kind of the journey of building the confidence in that area.

[00:19:47] Kate: What did that look like for you?

[00:19:49] Nicole: Yeah, I think, um, I w yeah, I do have a story that has, that has, that is relevant to this. Um, I, it's kind of tied to making a big life decision and leads into business abilities. I suppose, one area that I've realized that I am super confident in is the ability to adapt to change and to make a big change.

[00:20:13] Nicole: Like I said, he's tied to making a big life decision. And honestly, I like I'm unashamedly I'll give myself like a 15 out of 10 for,

[00:20:22] Kate: yeah. I love that

[00:20:25] Nicole: public speaking, a, two, but let's go with adapting to new circumstances. So when I was, I chose teaching, so, you know, I've shared this with you. I used to be a teacher before I was an entrepreneur and I chose teaching because it was a safe choice.

[00:20:40] Nicole: It was a career that I knew would provide stability. You know, I grew up with uncertainty around like work and money. And so I w I basically chose a career that would never put me out of work. Wasn't what I was passionate about, but I thought it was a safe choice. And I did that for 12 years, like until, yeah, until 2012, where I decided, okay, um, this isn't fulfilling me anymore.

[00:21:06] Nicole: I'm going to do something different. And at that point, so this is nine years ago. I did not know if I could make that massive change. Like, can I completely start something completely different and earn money, you know, give up the teaching, the safe, regular paycheck that comes from teaching. I didn't know that I kind of knew that I could adapt to a new environment because I'd been, you know, moved from Sydney, did the teaching thing in Japan moved to Dubai.

[00:21:36] Nicole: So I was like, okay, I can definitely move countries. I can adapt to that, but can I, but I took teaching with me in all of those situations in all of those moves, but when I decided to leave Dubai, I was like, I'm going to go and study film. And I was like, okay. And then I'm going to be a filmmaker. I'm going to be a director.

[00:21:54] Nicole: Like, I didn't know what that looked like, but I was like, okay, what is kind of the minimal viable version of this? It's funny. Cause I didn't even know what an entrepreneur was back then. I didn't know the concept of minimal viable, but I literally thought I need to learn this lesson really quickly. I need to know, can I do something completely different as fast as possible?

[00:22:16] Nicole: Because I was 34 at the time. I'm like, okay, I can't go back to uni. I can't go back to college and do a degree in film and then figure it out. Um, I have to do this really quickly. So that's when I decided, okay, I'm going to go to New York. I looked up New York film academy. There was a four week digital filmmaking.

[00:22:32] Nicole: course, I was like, okay, I just had some money saved. It costs like about three grand at the time. So it was substantial. But I thought in a short amount of time, I will know if like this is something I want to do. And I. Apply this to a career. So yeah, I signed up, I, um, I moved to New York. I didn't even know how to use a camera.

[00:22:57] Nicole: I wasn't into photography. I could appreciate art, but I was like, I don't even know what shutter speed aperture. I don't know any of those things. I don't even, I don't even own a camera, like a proper, you know, filmmaking, digital filmmaking, digital camera. So I was like, okay, it's literally in three and a half weeks.

[00:23:13] Nicole: That's how long the course was. I was like front of the class taking notes. Like I was surrounded by 20 year old international students that come to New York with this, like, yeah, this is fun. Let's, you know, do a three week film making course. I was like, no, no, no, this is going to be my next career. So I'm taking notes.

[00:23:32] Nicole: I'm asking all the questions I'm taking this seriously. Right. And I did like, I loved every moment of every class. I took it super seriously. I. Graduated after three and a half weeks. And on the day of graduation, I remember I was walking with my group of friends and we walked past a bulletin board in the building.

[00:23:56] Nicole: And there was this notice from this guy had put up this, uh, this like a job ad saying, looking for a filmmaker to I'm an artist I'm going to be, you know, uh, creating an installation. I wouldn't like someone to film this process, uh, completely for free, no money just for the glory. And hadn't even graduated yet the graduation ceremony.

[00:24:21] Nicole: And I was like, okay, I'm going to do that. Like, this will be my first kind of gig, um, or at least call him and try and like go for it. So I called the guy set up a meeting for that afternoon. Did the graduation ceremony, met him at a cafe in, um, I think it was in the east village in New York. His name was Martin.

[00:24:43] Nicole: And he explained to me he was an artist, he was going to be working on this, uh, art installation that creating a series of works and wanted someone to film him doing it so that when he displayed his works in this like hotel in New York, that part of the evening would be, uh, to also screen a documentary of how he created these works and that I was like, okay, this sounds interesting to me.

[00:25:10] Nicole: I've got no experience. I'm going to do it. And then I said, yes. And he said, okay, let's start this afternoon. Come to my apartment. We'll start. We'll, we'll take the first canvas

[00:25:27] Kate: speed to implementation.

[00:25:31] Nicole: I messaged all my friends in that group. I said, this is the address. I'm going to be at a three o'clock this afternoon. If you don't hear from literally, I swear I did this. I was like, if you don't hear from me in like an hours time, if I don't message you back and say, everything is good, this is where I am come and get me.

[00:25:50] Nicole: And my friends were like, they were like, okay. Okay, no worries. Good. You know, good luck go. So basically, like we had agreed, like, I'd go, I'd go and get my camera. My tripod. I literally had, like, after I graduated, I thought, okay, what else can I send, spend my savings on I'll buy a camera, I'll buy a tripod or buy a camera bag.

[00:26:06] Nicole: And that's it. I'll start. I'll start working. I had no idea like what I was going to do, but I was like, I need, at least the basic equipment went to his apartment. He brought out his first canvas. I just started filling. All to say that I spent, this was in July of 2012, or to say that I spent the month of July was the course, the month of August.

[00:26:27] Nicole: I spent following him around in humid, sweaty, hot New York. You know what summers are like in NY

[00:26:34] Kate: so humid

[00:26:36] Kate: and you've got all this equipment and he's not paying you

[00:26:41] Nicole: doing it for free just paying my rent for my apartment in New York. I followed him around. I always remember this one night where we decided to film a time lapse in the subway in New York.

[00:26:52] Nicole: He literally would. He started with a blank canvas and he would complete the work by the end of that night. And I was just on loop, like just putting in, you know, the next memory card, next memory card. It was like eight hours of filming in the subway. Wow. So tired. I was on my feet and then I decided to like, I have to sit down and I was sitting down on the grubby New York subway floor, which is just, yeah, four weeks later he had finished like about 12 pieces of work.

[00:27:22] Nicole: I had an edited, I had edited, uh, you know, the, the documentary, which ended up being like 11 minutes. I screened it at the. Okay. It was an, it was a hotel in New York behind Times Square. Right? So it was a New York opening.

[00:27:38] Kate: It was a deal. That's a big deal

[00:27:40] Nicole: It was this bit

[00:27:40] Nicole: hotel in the back of times square somewhere. But he'd rented out this room, invited all these people.

[00:27:46] Nicole: I invited all my friends. He had all his work up, he was trying to sell and we screened the documentary and I was like, oh my God. Like, I was just, I didn't know. It was so surreal for me. It was like, this is, this is the first thing I've done. Like, I don't even know if this is good and I'm sure that's not good.

[00:28:05] Nicole: You know, what are people gonna think this is? But it was okay. It was okay. And people enjoyed it. It served its purpose. And that night I felt like I can do this. I can now launch into a completely different career. I can actually learn something, you know, I can learn something from zero and then that's technically a new career.

[00:28:33] Nicole: I'm not great. I'm not the best that launched my confidence into then starting our businesses. I didn't go to business school. I don't have an MBA. I don't know any, I didn't study, you know, coding and development. And now, you know, we have a team of 20, you know, running a SaaS company. So my confidence, you know, nine years ago, it was like, I don't even know if I can do anything else, but teach, you know, I'm just a teacher.

[00:29:06] Nicole: That's what I learned to do. That's all I know how to do. And then within eight weeks, I was like, I can now operate a camera and turn this into a piece of something. And that all of a sudden makes me technically on paper, a documentary filmmaker.

[00:29:24] Kate: Absolutely. And I'm just so impressed that you even had this idea of speed to implementation and minimum viable product, because like you said, you weren't an entrepreneur and you hadn't been in a world where people talk about those types of things all the time.

[00:29:38] Kate: Like fail fast, get it done. You'll learn along the way. One foot in front of the other one step at a time, like action reveals answers, you know, all of these things that are all about do it and figure it out. Stop trying to study the opposite for me. I actually wanted to become a teacher so bad that I went back, that I went to grad school, which makes no sense at all, other than the fact that I probably could have gotten maybe a quote unquote, better job teaching because I had my graduate degree.

[00:30:09] Kate: Anyways, I did the opposite. I'm like, let me, yeah. spend more money and spend two years getting this degree to maybe become a teacher. And you're like, I'm doing a four week online class, I'm moving to New York, I'm going to do this thing. And Martin, that's awesome that you posted that job in that, on that job board and Nicole school look at how that changed the trajectory of your confidence of you starting these businesses.

[00:30:37] Kate: And, uh, you know, we don't need to get into all the details in this episode. I'm sure it'll come out in future episodes, but then you've gone on to use your skills in filmmaking and editing and all of that, and so many different ways in your business, which I think is priceless.

[00:30:53] Nicole: Yeah, that's true. No, it's true.

[00:30:54] Nicole: And we can talk about that. I really I'm a big proponent of just-in-time learning and just learning something really, really fast and then applying and iterating on it. Uh, and just accepting the fact that it's not going to be the best thing that you do first, you know, the first version of it, but you're just, you'll just get better.

[00:31:11] Nicole: I didn't know. You wanted to be a teacher. Like I know that. Weren't you in marketing? Like what, where

[00:31:18] Kate: that's a whole nother episode. We'll have to talk about like pre what, what we were in previous lives for an episode. Sometime before that I was, I worked in commercial loan, processing and IRAs. So for another time.

[00:31:35] Nicole: Okay. Okay. We'll have to get into that. Cause there's a lot that I don't know there, but, um, well, yeah, I'm going to turn it over to you. Like what, what's been a similar experience with lack of confidence turning into. An 8.5. Yeah.

[00:31:53] Kate: I have a, I have a business related story on this as well, and it really goes back to, I was exactly like you, I didn't know what entrepreneurship was until much later in my life, which is why I jumped from jobs like commercial loan processing and opening people's IRAs to getting into marketing and advertising.

[00:32:14] Kate: Uh, and, and I was in banking for a long time all the time. I've had every banking job imaginable, but. It wasn't until I met John. And he kind of introduced me to this idea of no, you actually can determine what you want to do on a day-to-day basis. I was like what I thought I had to get on the trolley and on the bus and go to the 13th floor and sit behind this desk and answer phones.

[00:32:38] Kate: What are you talking about? Tell me everything. So I started being introduced to this idea that you can. Start your own business and that you could do something that you, that lit you up and that you were really excited about. And for me, that was writing, I loved writing. And I had like these dreams and aspirations of being a published author and like all these magical things that at the time I was like, okay, great.

[00:33:04] Kate: One step at a time. Like you're not going to be publishing any best-sellers anytime soon, maybe at some point, but I guess subconsciously I was kind of looking for that minimum viable product. And so I quit my job and I launched a business called Kate's copy. Cause it was all about copywriting and I, I love my alliterations.

[00:33:25] Kate: So I launched this business and I wanted to specifically help businesses take their presence online. So I was living in Portland, Maine at the time, which is the cutest tiniest little town in the old port specifically. Portland's quite big, but the old port is this still functioning fishing town, so to speak.

[00:33:45] Kate: And there are so many awesome businesses there with all these main made like beautiful pieces of art and all of these things. And they're just brick and mortar stores. I'm like, oh, I come from, you know, from advertising and marketing. And I'm going to show these people that they could bring, do an online presence and start a website and they could increase their sales in all of this stuff.

[00:34:06] Kate: Long story short Kate's Copy lasted for six months and I never got a client. And I was really fumbling my way through this first go at what entrepreneurship meant and what that was like, because I came from a background and every pretty much every position I ever held at any company I ever worked for was very much.

[00:34:29] Kate: A manager giving me a task and me doing that task really well. I was so good at that. You tell me that you need something done or you give me your vision for the finished product and I will make it happen. It doesn't matter if you know what to tell me to do or not. I'll figure it out. That was kind of like, that's my zone of genius.

[00:34:48] Kate: I really enjoy that like process and system oriented software and how things work together. And so anyway, I went from jobs where someone. Essentially delegating things to me and I was doing them. Then I get into entrepreneurship and I'm like, this is great. I'm starting this company. Kate's copy. I'm just going to go tell these people what my idea is, and they're going to hire me, obviously, that didn't happen.

[00:35:18] Kate: And I found myself at a coffee shop at home, you know, in my different. Quote, unquote work environments. Now that I was running my own business and all I needed was my laptop, which was incredible. But I struggled with not knowing what to do. I had always had someone tell me what to do. And all of a sudden I felt just like a fish out of water.

[00:35:39] Kate: I didn't know what to do. I like, should I be Googling different articles about how to be an entrepreneur? Should I be watching videos right now? I was just lost, lost. So after six months I went, I got a job again. I went back to advertising and marketing. I had an incredible experience as an account executive for a small agency in Portland.

[00:36:00] Kate: I had awesome mentors, a great team of people around me, but I started working like 16 - 18 hour days, I would literally be at the office until like 3:00 AM or 4:00 AM. Cause in advertising and marketing, as I'm sure everyone's pretty well aware of, I mean, it's just crazy deadlines, totally unrealistic expectations.

[00:36:21] Kate: And it really started wearing off. Loved my job was learning so much, but you know, I was having those nights and I would come home and John is like, what are you doing? I'm like, I don't know. I don't, I couldn't do the Kate's copy thing. I felt totally defeated by that because I'm like, here's me trying to give a go at this.

[00:36:40] Kate: And, and you know, what was me like looking back on it. I was totally kind of doing a little bit of a victim role thing, which I try to be very conscious of now, but I do feel like in some ways I was kind of like, oh, but I can't, like I tried. And I can't, and that's totally the wrong attitude to have, even though that is how I felt at the time.

[00:37:03] Kate: And that was my mindset back then. Thankfully I've shifted that and I feel differently about being in those types of situations now, but the fact was that's where I was. My confidence level was very low when it came to entrepreneurship and whether or not I could really make something happen on my own.

[00:37:19] Kate: So John and I are talking about this. In the interim. John had launched this business podcast called Entrepreneurs On Fire, and he was gaining traction and momentum. He was really making some things happen. And the more we talked about me struggling in this advertising and marketing job and loving what I was learning and loving the industry, but not loving my day to day.

[00:37:43] Kate: It kind of got to the point where he's like, you are so incredible at all the things that I am not, why don't you quit your job and join me on the team. We'll become entrepreneurs together. We'll run this business together. It's going to be awesome. And. That honestly, to even hear him think that I could be a great addition to the team was like an instant confidence boost.

[00:38:10] Kate: I mean, here he is having just launched this successful podcast and building a business around it. And, you know, I had kind of tried to do that in a different way with Kate's copy and failed and here he is making it happen. So I obviously thought that was incredible. And I, and I looked up to him for that, and I was very proud of him for that.

[00:38:30] Kate: And the fact that he thought that my skills and expertise were, you know, up to the point where he would want me to join the team and that he had this vision for all these things that we could do together. Given my skillset kind of started making me look at my skills in a different light. And I think at that time, before that.

[00:38:49] Kate: I was focusing on the things that I couldn't do or that I wasn't great at versus thinking of all the experience and skills that I had, that could be such an amazing addition to a project or a business or any venture. So that was really a huge shift and turning point for me. And my confidence around business is joining the team and don't get me wrong.

[00:39:13] Kate: I was still lacking in confidence in many areas when I joined entrepreneurs on fire, but just like you Nicole. I was doing it. I started doing it and I started proving to myself, which I think this is what I heard from your story, too. You prove to yourself that you could make that video. You proved to yourself that you could put together this thing and that maybe it wasn't perfect.

[00:39:38] Kate: And certainly it wasn't your best work because it was your first work, but you were doing it. And I think that that is such a, that has been such a huge thing on my journey is proving to myself over and over that I can do these things and know they're not perfect the first time and they're never going to be perfect, but I can't improve upon them.

[00:39:59] Kate: I can't build confidence around something that I don't try. And I think that was really. Such a huge lesson for me in building confidence, period. I mean, I know that I would love for both of us to be able to kind of share some of our top tips for building confidence here.

[00:40:17] Nicole: Uh, um, well, no, the one thing that you've, that you, that immediately comes to mind, like you said that six months was, you know, what you gave Kate's copy and that felt like probably an eternity at that time, because you were like, okay, it's going to succeed.

[00:40:29] Nicole: So every month that goes past every day that goes past and it's not succeeding is just, you know, your confidence level kind of just draining bit by bit, you know, but the fact that it does take time and that what, you know, you learned, and what I learned is that it isn't a flick of the switch and it, and it will take.

[00:40:51] Nicole: It is a process and the fact that you were able to, and John probably, and we, you know, and I think you're probably grateful in that, in that sense that he saw that you actually did give something a go. Um, there is, you did build some skills in that, even though the final version of it, wasn't what you envisioned that whole process was so valuable that you were able to then take that and apply that to entrepreneurs on fire and what an amazing creation that has been and is, um, to this day.

[00:41:21] Nicole: So, yeah, I didn't mean to cut you off, but I definitely think when you talked about the, the, the first tip that comes to mind is it's not going to be one day to the next it, you have to allow yourself the time to, to, to exercise that muscle.

[00:41:37] Kate: Yeah. I definitely, I think patience is a big part of it. I know, you know, you mentioned the six months feeling like an eternity.

[00:41:43] Kate: In some ways it did feel like an eternity because I did feel a higher level. Of just the stress of, I want this to work so bad, but sometimes I would go a week without really feeling like I had accomplished much. And, and it can feel that way when you're only focusing on something tangible or a specific outcome, rather than focusing on all the accomplishments that you did have, whether that be having another conversation with someone, having a, going to a networking event and meeting five new people.

[00:42:24] Kate: I mean, these are all things that we probably wouldn't normally say. But guess what I accomplished this week, I went to a networking event and I met five new people, but that is awesome because you never know where those relationships might lead and, and of course building relationships is everything. So yeah, I think that patience is, is certainly top of mind.

[00:42:47] Kate: What would you say are some other kind of habits or rituals that you've created? Um, I love this, uh, you say to breathe in confidence and exhale doubt, whether it be for like a speaking engagement, maybe going for a big, ask a job interview in your past life, even going to a new workout class can sometimes seem like, Ooh, got a nervous about this, but what would you say are some of your top tips for building confidence in any of these areas?

[00:43:17] Nicole: Uh, just the first thing that actually just popped into my mind is it's a little bit weird, but is something that I do keep in mind every time I do. Well, when you say trying a new workout class, Stop thinking that it's about you and that people are focusing on you. You know, we've got this idea that, that everyone's attention is on me right now.

[00:43:41] Nicole: Cause I'm the new person in the workout class. Then not everyone's actually in their own head. Everyone's actually worried about themselves being reminded of that is just a simple thing to just the focus is not on me. And if this is something I want to do, I want to try this. And this new workout class, then just go and do it.

[00:44:05] Nicole: Why shouldn't I try that class? Um, you know, there's no reason for me not to, um, but as soon as I stopped thinking that, what are other people going to think that does actually, you know, affect your confidence levels, then that's just, yeah, that's one very like simple way to, to, to look at it. I don't want to, you know, make it seem, you know, diminish it because you know, it can be a big thing to, you know, to do a speaking engagement, to go for that, that job interview.

[00:44:36] Nicole: The other thing I always think about too, is that it's that sense of like worthiness. If, if you feel like you deserve that promotion, that job then going into it. With the mindset that you have to sell people and convince people, but your understanding and self-worth makes such a big impact in terms of the way you come across.

[00:45:01] Nicole: This is a really super, I remember going to this one. Um, we went to a news, uh, company here in Sydney one day and we were sitting down to have this meeting. It was just Omar and I, and I remember the lady that we were talking to, she just came in, she was just a bit flustered. And, and we were like, oh, you know, we were just getting to know each other.

[00:45:19] Nicole: We didn't even know each other. And she just said, oh, you just wouldn't believe what happened. I've got this new, um, team member on my team and they've just come in and ask for a raise if asked for a raise from like whatever it was. I can't remember the figure. 60,000 to a hundred thousand. It was like a ridiculous amount..

[00:45:36] Nicole: She was, uh, this person's superior. And she said, well, well, why, why should I give you this raise? And the, there were, there were young, uh, employee that might be in the early twenties. They said, oh, well, I'd always set this, um, set this goal in my mind that when I get to 25, I'm going to be earning a hundred thousand dollars.

[00:45:54] Nicole: That was the justification that this person goes. Wow. And so obviously this person comes to our meeting, um, you know, with like, oh, where do I even begin? Right. You know, you, that is not a justification for a raise of that amount because you've just woken up and said, oh, it's my. It's my 25th birthday. And I've, that's how much I should be earning by now.

[00:46:20] Nicole: The point of that is that if I think about early jobs that I went for, that I wasn't confident that I was going to get, like, I wasn't sure, I wasn't sure that I was going to get those jobs, but I was like, well, what have I done to this point? What, what can I just share? What can I state that are the facts?

[00:46:36] Nicole: And I actually believe that in those facts in themselves, there is value there. It's I do deserve this, this job. I may not get it, but I at least am worthy of getting it because this is what I've done. As a silly example, but I think that belief is something that is critical to, to building your confidence. So even though I give myself a two, if for my, you know, getting on stage and delivering a talk, I know that why can't I give this talk?.

[00:47:09] Nicole: Maybe I've got knowledge in this area that would be valuable for people to know, stop thinking that people are just focusing on how I'm delivering the talk or what I'm wearing, or the way I sound focus on the content. I have this content to share. I I deserve to be there just like anybody else. I don't know if that makes sense.

[00:47:30] Kate: Yes. I'm like is what immediately comes to mind for me is your presentation, your workshop at, We Are Podcast in Australia. And I remember you sharing with me that you were so nervous about that and, you know, you were, you were pretty nervous about delivering that. And I, I remember looking at you and saying, Nicole, this is what you do in your business.

[00:47:53] Kate: Like you, you know, this inside and out, you do this every day. You're so knowledgeable about this. And I love that. You said to kind of, you know, you said maybe it's a simple thing, but I really think that it takes effort and intentionality to be able to take a step back and say, okay, what do I know for sure?

[00:48:15] Kate: I might be lacking a little bit of confidence getting up in front of a room of 20-30. A hundred people because I haven't done it a tonne. However, I know this topic, I do this really well in my business all the time. And our business is very successful. So kind of reminding yourself of those, you know, leg ups that you do have is I think a great way to build that confidence for sure.

[00:48:46] Nicole: When you, and you were talking about, um, you know, how John had was already a few steps ahead and started entrepreneurs on fire, and then he asked you to join him. To your point, having someone that you know is willing to be supportive is I feel, I mean, I'm sure you're super grateful. I'm super grateful.

[00:49:06] Nicole: Cause I was at the same situation with me and Omar. He was like, he'd already been building businesses. I learned the word entrepreneur, like in 2012, like as embarrassing as that may be. But having someone around you, uh, and looking for those support networks and sharing the fact that, uh, you know, it's true, like I would share with you, like, I am terrified of this speaking engagement and you're like, ah, what are you talking about?

[00:49:32] Nicole: This is what you do. Having someone, just you getting out of your head and having someone to share that with and to give you that boost of confidence, um, yeah. Is just, it's priceless.

[00:49:43] Kate: That's probably the biggest hurdle that we have the face is getting out of our own head. Um, and, and other thing that we mentioned earlier on too, but that I think is just such an awesome tip for building confidence is you just have to put in the reps.

[00:49:57] Kate: You said it earlier, you talked about it being like building a muscle and I can attribute so many of my boosts and confidence or the areas that I've been able to increase confidence over the years. I can directly attribute it. Back that I've simply done it. I've proven to myself that the world doesn't end that I'm not gonna, you know, die.

[00:50:20] Kate: And that as long as you're willing to put in the reps, put in the work and commit to it, that every single time you get better, every single time you'll get more feedback. Every single time, you'll have more people willing to support you. And all of that is just going to build your confidence every single time.

[00:50:38] Kate: It's like stepping stones. Like you have to start somewhere. Yeah, that is confidence to me. It's literally it's those reps and that experience. And if you're not willing to, um, you're not gonna wake up with it one day. I just really, that is one of the biggest shifts that I've understood that I've made. Um, and I've come to realize is that you are not going to magically wake up one morning and feel confident.

[00:51:03] Kate: It will just happen over time, but you have to put yourself in. Those is uncomfortable situations, those moments where, you know, yeah, this is not going to be perfect. This is not going to be great, but I'm going to do it because the next time I do. It'll be a little bit better.

[00:51:18] Kate: Absolutely. Um, totally agree.

[00:51:21] Kate: So, Nicole, you mentioned earlier, you were kind of talking about maybe there is a time in your life that you were thinking, well, people are just born with confidence. Like that type of confidence is just there, or it's not. Um, I'm curious on this topic of how confidence might be different for men versus women, because I know that generally speaking.

[00:51:47] Kate: Guys tend to come off as more confident in pretty much all things in life, I would say.

[00:51:56] Nicole: Yeah. I agree with you there. Yeah.

[00:51:58] Kate: Why, why do you think that is? Why?

[00:52:02] Nicole: Yeah, it's funny, right? It's like, I know when I w when you said some people have it and it's like, I would, I would probably say most of the time, the people that I've seen have it tend to be men.

[00:52:11] Nicole: Like it just comes off so much more easily. They get onstage and they don't apologize for being onstage. Cause I've been to so many talks where, um, I literally went to this one day where it was, it was female entrepreneurship kind of day at, um, the coworking space here. And I observed this. It was so interesting to me.

[00:52:30] Nicole: There were about eight women that presented their awesome businesses. There were just the loveliest human beings on stage. Their businesses were great. Yeah. I kid you, not every single woman that got onstage at the beginning, acknowledged how nervous they were, did a little ritual of like, okay, breathe it out, breathe it out.

[00:52:49] Nicole: But publicly and said it because a group of women in the audience, and I was just, I was amazed because I was like, you do the thing that you need to do to get through this talk, whatever you gotta do, do it. Awesome. We're all cheering each other on and supporting each other. But in the back of my mind, I thought, have I ever heard a guy get on stage and say, I'm just going to tell you guys I'm just really nervous to do this.

[00:53:15] Nicole: I mean, maybe I haven't heard enough talks given by men. I don't know if you could get that.

[00:53:20] Kate: That's exactly what I was going to ask you because I was just going through my head right now, thinking of I've ever heard a male up on stage doing that. And I can't say that I have.

[00:53:33] Nicole: Right. So this is a really good question to ask, right?

[00:53:38] Nicole: Like, why is that? And I I've thought about this a lot. I have this quote that I'm obsessed with from an author that I have not read his book. So I'm not going to pretend I'm smarter than I am, because I have not read the actual original, uh, it's a fiction book. The author is John Fowles. And I think the book is The Magus.

[00:54:01] Nicole: It was published in like 1965. It's apparently a great work of fiction. I have not read it, but I know there's a quote that exists from this book and I've seen the paragraph where it comes from, and it's always resonated with me and I've always wanted to share it. And I think this is the first time I'm actually saying it out loud.

[00:54:18] Nicole: The quote is "Men see objects, women see relationships between objects."

[00:54:27] Kate: I'm just silent because I'm processing.

[00:54:31] Nicole: Yeah. It's a lot to process. Okay. There's the whole paragraph. I'll read you the whole paragraph. How about I do that? Yeah, it was a beautiful paragraph. Okay. I've got it here in front of me.

[00:54:43] Nicole: Men love war because it allows them to look serious, because they imagine it is the only thing that stops women laughing at them. In it. they can reduce women to the status of objects. That is the great distinction between the sexes. Men see objects, women see relationships between objects, whether the objects need each other, love each other, match each other. It is an extra dimension of feeling we men are without. And one that makes war apparent to all women and absurd.

[00:55:16] Nicole: I will tell you what war is. War is a psychosis caused by an inability to see relationships. I love this quo. Wow. Yup. 1965 people. So we can put into context. Yeah. Why do I love

[00:55:31] Kate: very intense?

[00:55:33] Nicole: It is intense, but let's just focus on, because I do think this to me is at the core of the lack of confidence, um, that I've experienced with let's, let's take the example of getting on stage and speaking, at an event, right?

[00:55:47] Nicole: So I will see in my assumption, this is what I perceive is that, you know, a guy will get on stage. He's got the objective to get the speech done, to do well, to come to that event, deliver the, the, the speech, impress people with his knowledge and talk on the, on, on, on the topic. And really the, the, the stage, the talk is just a vehicle to get that thing done, whatever it is that he's come there.

[00:56:16] Nicole: If I perceive, when I think about myself getting on stage, I'm kind of less focused on that objective. I'm seeing more, the relational side of things. Like, how am I going to be perceived? What's everyone thinking of me by now. Um, What if people don't like what I say or what if, what if they're focusing on the way I'm dressed or the way I look and it's this kind of relational side of things versus on like, okay, this is my objective.

[00:56:44] Nicole: This is what I'm here to do. This is what I'm here to accomplish. Let's get it done. And that's why that quote really resonates with me because I think a lot of the time I'm focused and I'm just, I'll speak for myself here. I'm focused more on that relational side of things. My me in relation to the audience, the audience in relation to me.

[00:57:04] Nicole: And when you start thinking about that, then you stop thinking about, well, I'm here to give a talk and provide value. And, and this is, this is important stuff that everyone's here to learn about and wants to know. Does that make any sense?

[00:57:17] Kate: Yeah, it does. It does. And of course, again, we're generalizing here.

[00:57:23] Kate: Of course there are absolutely men who probably deal with the same types of fears and doubts and imposter syndrome and all of that. And of course there are women who get up on stage. And the last thing in the world they're going to do is talk about how nervous they are, right? Yeah. Again, generally speaking.

[00:57:42] Kate: That's so, uh, it's so telling, and, you know, really brings it to the forefront, this experience that you had at the event, when every single one of the women who got on stage that day. And when you told, when you told that story, my thought immediately was, I wonder how, because you said it was all women in the audience as well.

[00:58:04] Nicole: And one guy...

[00:58:06] Kate: I wonder how he would have been different. If there would have been more men in the audience. I wonder if they would have done that same thing, maybe the comfort level was there for them to be able to be vulnerable and express that because they were in a room filled with women. I don't know.

[00:58:27] Nicole: That's a good question. I hadn't thought about that. And yeah, I know like I hate putting this as a disclaimer, but I just think this is great conversation. I know that it's totally, you know, generalizations aside, you know, these are real, real things that we struggle with. I do think about, you know, I'm not saying that every single guy that gets up on stage and every single woman that gets up on stage is going to be like me and is like that person that I see is really, really confident.

[00:58:54] Nicole: If they're a guy it's just, this is my experience of sure. Of yeah. Well, how, how have you navigated this? Because you are on stage, you've been on stage a lot more than I have, and I applaud you every time I've seen you deliver a talk at, you know, different events around the world. I've seen you speaking, you know, even on a cruise ship, I have seen you speak everywhere, woman.

[00:59:20] Nicole: You've done an amazing job. I, you know, how have you navigated this? I mean, you're confident when you're on stage, but how did you get to that, that point?

[00:59:33] Kate: I appreciate that very much. First of all, I accept that praise and I appreciate it. So yeah, I think back to the first time that I was ever on stage. And of course I was quite nervous.

[00:59:49] Kate: Had a lot of butterflies, had not a lot of confidence because I had never done it before. But I think this kind of goes back to our, you know, tips for building confidence is that I, I built the confidence because I started doing it more. If you would have asked me 10 years ago, if I would go on stage and speak in front of people, I would be like, no, Absolutely not hard pass, not just pass hard pass then, you know, going back to, and I know that we chatted about this in another episode and that I mentioned it in today's introduction, that transformational training that I went to, when I realized I didn't want to play small anymore, then opportunities come about for me to speak on a stage.

[01:00:32] Kate: Of course, I want to try that because I don't know playing small anymore. Right? Like I'm playing big now and playing big looks like being on stage and sharing my knowledge and being uncomfortable. And, and I certainly didn't start out again, going on stage and being like, I'm going to crush this. Like I might have even gotten up on stage and said, I am incredibly nervous right now.

[01:00:57] Kate: This is my first time ever speaking on stage. I might have actually done that. I know. I definitely, I know I've definitely done it. And other talks before. But I think about the progression of my speaking career, if you will. Yes. And, and, and each of the iterations of that, or the experiences with that, you know, I started at a conference with a bazillion tracks and I was in the room in the way back of the hallway.

[01:01:32] Kate: And, and I was cool with that because I'm like, I've never spoken before. They don't know if anyone's going to come to my talk. Of course, they're going to put me up against like all these other talks that are probably more appealing than mine. And my room is small and I'm back in the corner and I get it.

[01:01:47] Kate: I get it. But I went into that room and there was standing room only. And so immediately I get on stage and, uh, I'm nervous. I don't have a ton of confidence. It's only my second time on stage, but I've got people standing in here. Like they want to, they are here because they want to hear what I have to say and they're willing to stand to do it.

[01:02:12] Kate: So those like, and then, and then I started getting in rooms that weren't in the back corner and that, you know, we're up against other talks that mine probably sounded a lot better than those and, and the room was bigger and it, and it, there kept being more people in each of my rooms. And then I started having people offer to pay me to speak at conferences.

[01:02:35] Kate: And so this progression of, of putting, again, I don't mean to sound like a broken record on this, but my experience with it has certainly been that. As a, a woman, because that's what I am that I have struggled a lot with confidence. And there have been times where I've wanted to say no to opportunities because of how nervous I am and how I think that I lack the skills or the knowledge to be able to do it as well as somebody else.

[01:03:08] Kate: And that may be somebody else should do it because they do better. But again, That's not how I want to show up in my life. And so I might be lacking the confidence, but I'm okay with that because I know if I do it and then do it again and do it again and do it again, then I will build the confidence and then I will become better.

[01:03:29] Kate: And I'm willing to do that because that's how I want to live my life. I mean, this, this goes back to our previous episodes when we chatted about this.

[01:03:38] Nicole: And you know, as you're saying this, it, because from the outset, you know, you're about to keynote at a major event, at Podcast Movement, keynote. I mean, that's, that's, that's, you've got the biggest stage basically.

[01:03:51] Nicole: And so from the outset, someone would, who doesn't know, you might think, oh, she's just, this is, yeah, this is her thing. This is, this is natural for her. She can do this. So maybe it's just. Going back to my very, very early days, thinking that our confidence is something you're born with and you, and you just have it, or you don't, and your, you can flick it on it, just like a switch.

[01:04:14] Nicole: Maybe we just have to accept that we will still do things and still achieve our goals with level, level of confidence that maybe isn't, you know, ideal or isn't maybe what we want it to be, but that's okay. Maybe that's just how we, we progress. That's part of the journey and just not maybe obsess over it.

[01:04:34] Nicole: I think maybe I obsess over it, you know, like that's, that's probably what holds me back in terms of like giving myself a two, as you know, for public speaking. Um, and because I'm not confident, w w what does it even matter? Why focus on that? Why focus on the confidence aspect of it focus on delivering a great talk..

[01:04:52] Nicole: Mm. And that's it. And okay. If the confidence is there. All right. Maybe, maybe it has an impact, maybe it doesn't. Um, I'm not saying not to give it any, any weight or any importance. I mean, we've talked for about an hour yeah. On this topic. So it's a really important topic, but maybe what I'm trying to say is that, um, just accepting for what it is, whatever stage in life.

[01:05:15] Nicole: I don't want to sound preachy, but for whatever stage in life, whatever point you are on that spectrum of, you know, going from a one to a ten, just that's where you already you're at right now. Just keep moving forward. Just keep doing the thing that you got to do.

[01:05:30] Kate: I also think it begs the question of how many, I mean, just going back quickly to like the male versus female man versus woman, like level of confidence and everything.

[01:05:40] Kate: I wonder how many times, uh, the, uh, male onstage looking and sounding and like feeling super powerful is still having these thoughts of like, not a ton of confidence, but they're not overthinking it and they're not letting the emotional side of it to your quote. And you know, the, the excerpt that you shared from that book, maybe it's just that they're not focused on it.

[01:06:05] Kate: And so it doesn't affect them in the same ways.. Alright Nicole and friends, as we close out, today's chat on confidence. We hope that you've picked up a thing or two that you can carry with you today and moving forward too aptly so. So give you that extra boost of confidence and support when you need it the most.

[01:06:29] Nicole: And friends, don't forget to hit subscribe in apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. So you don't miss a single episode. Kate, thank you so much. I just love being able to talk these topics out with you. I can't wait for our next chat.

[01:06:45] Kate: Yes, this is awesome. Thanks Nicole.

[01:06:47] Kate: And thanks to everyone tuning in until next time.

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