Vulnerability and sharing: How much is too much?

Putting yourself out there isn’t always a super comfortable thing, but for those of us running a business, we know it’s part of the package. In this episode we’ll share our own personal experiences with being vulnerable, (and what that actually means), plus share our perspectives on the question of sharing and how much is too much?

[00:00:00] Kate: Hey friends, it's Nicole and Kate, your girls from across the globe, Sydney, Australia, and Puerto Rico to be exact. And we are so excited to be sharing this time with you.

[00:00:11] Nicole: Yes. Get ready for a candid convo on honesty that's today's topic and throughout we'll be sharing our own experiences and thoughts in the hopes that you'll realize that one you're not alone.

[00:00:22] Nicole: And two that open and honest convos can lead to awesome discoveries shifts in perspective. Energy to move ahead with confidence

[00:00:30] Kate: because that's what real friends do they provide love, support, and space for one another to share without judgment, speak, without hesitation, and to learn from each other, even when we don't agree.

[00:00:41] Kate: And with that, let's dive in.

[00:00:45] Nicole: Well episode two

[00:00:47] Kate: episode two, indeed. Nicole, I know you and I are both excited to chat about today's topic of honesty and vulnerability and how much to share and how much is sharing too much. And we've got a lot of great things going on in our convo today. I'll start off by saying, I feel like this topic really kind of hit hot for me when I became an entrepreneur and public figure might not be the exact phrase I want to use, but yeah, I suddenly realized that when you put yourself out there and you start a business and you have followers and you're providing content, um, that's okay.

[00:01:34] Kate: People see it, and it starts to become this thing of like, Your public self versus your private self, how much you're willing to share. Uh, and I think that, you know, vulnerability and, uh, transparency plays a big part in that. Um, and we can kind of talk about how maybe we've approached this a bit different in our businesses.

[00:01:59] Kate: Um, not in a good way or a bad way, but just like, there are a couple things that I think we approach a bit differently

[00:02:06] Nicole: yet. And, um, I suppose I know in the first, in our first episode, I don't know if this is going to be a, a trend or a theme, you know, going back to the early days, our childhood, how family, but I feel like it's appropriate in this sense, because like, you might.

[00:02:25] Nicole: Idea of how much to share and what you'd be willing to share with the world definitely changed. As soon as you know, I left my career as a teacher and delved into entrepreneurship. And that was like, that was a shift, a big shift and seeing what other people were doing, um, in the space. And I think. So many questions for you actually, because again, we've been friends for a long time and we've talked about this, but there are things that I still want to know that we haven't gotten around to.

[00:02:57] Nicole: So I think what we're trying to say with going back to the early days is. In my upbringing as you know, uh, growing up in Australia, but my parents being from, from Italy. So Italian heritage, the sense of what you share and what you should share with the world is very limited. It was always like. Don't say that, don't say that to anyone.

[00:03:20] Nicole: It's just weird. It's this weird sense of like, we're very communicative, very open, very honest in, in, at home, you know, if someone's not looking so great, they're going to tell you straight to your face, you know, and like no holds barred, but what you share outside the home is like, Yeah, very different. So I think this idea of like public and private is influenced by that kind of cultural upbringing.

[00:03:45] Nicole: And then as soon as you go into the entrepreneurship space and you see, and, and understanding, you know, vulnerability and what that kind of can do to help you connect with people. Better that for me was a big, uh, it's like, oh, okay. There is, there's a different way to be, you know? Um, there's a different way to see this idea of honesty and how much you share with the world, uh, depending on where you're coming from.

[00:04:12] Nicole: You know, if it

[00:04:13] Kate: is, yeah. Definitely. I think it's really interesting to look at it from a perspective of like how you grew up and kind of what, um, lessons were instilled as a, as a child, because so much of our like mindset and how we view the world is from that time. Um, and, and I mean, this immediately brings up for me like judgment and the imposter syndrome, because when I was young, I distinctly.

[00:04:42] Kate: Remember a time when I was like, I am here world I'm Kate. I'm great. Watch out. And then there were some specific, like moments in my life where that kind of got like beat down a little bit because of judgment. And like, I remember the fifth grade I ran for class president and I was. Obviously I'm going to win.

[00:05:12] Kate: I mean, I just had like, you know, I had a lot of confidence. I had a lot of support and, and I lost, I lost pretty bad actually. I was really, I was embarrassed that I had lost because I had, you know, I had like posters, plastered all over the school, like really advocating for myself and talking about it as if I had already won.

[00:05:38] Kate: And yeah. Yeah like that. I think that those moments in our lives, especially from when we're young and growing up, that they can really have like a formidable way with how we start to approach this later in life. I feel very lucky that I've kind of had almost like a second coming at this. The idea that we can have confidence and that we can be transparent and that we can be vulnerable.

[00:06:06] Kate: And if people are going to judge us, then that's on them, not on us as individuals. And I feel like that's, that's been a big thing for me because of course, when you become an entrepreneur and you start putting stuff out there, you, you will have people that judge what you share or. Think that you share too much, or don't think that you share enough and like all of this stuff, but if your focus is on that instead of you and what you're doing and the mission and the vision that you have, the impact that you want to make like that of course is taking precious energy and emotion away from what it should be going towards.

[00:06:43] Kate: And so I think for me, that's been certainly, you know, it's a big consequence. And a repercussion of like, should, should I share that? Should I not share that? Uh, you know, the more energy and emotion that you spend on thinking about the judgment and the imposter syndrome and, and all of that takes away from the actual purpose of you sharing the thing.

[00:07:06] Kate: If that makes sense.

[00:07:07] Nicole: Yeah, it does make sense. I was just thinking about Kate as a fifth grader and just having led that, that going through that experience, like, it's so awesome that you had that level of confidence. And then like you said, it kind of was beaten out of you through that loss. You felt embarrassed, but I see you now and I suppose.

[00:07:29] Nicole: One of the things that I see is very different and I admire you for, and I kind of want to ask you is like you, I feel like you do, uh, put you and John, especially, you know, you put a lot out there on social. Um, and you do share a lot about your private life publicly. When, so you said that when you first did that, you're kind of umming and uhhhing.

[00:07:49] Nicole: Should I shouldn't I, there, there are consequences, I guess I want to know, like, cause I don't feel like I've done that as much. Too at this, up to this point as, as, as, as you might have. Um, and it's kind of ironic, I suppose, given the first episode of this podcast and the things that we talked about, didn't that all change.

[00:08:13] Nicole: Um, okay. So I guess what I want to know is what made you really comfortable in the beginning to put those parts. To share more about your private life on social? I think, gosh, we can even talk about like social media when, you know, as soon as social media came into into the world, you know, the things that we put would probably posting earlier on, we didn't think, you know, um, many people would see it or whatever.

[00:08:39] Nicole: I mean, personally, I was just sharing vacation photos and I was okay with that. But you, for example, we'll share, we invite people into your home. Um, you know, you guys share an income report as part of your business. Like, what's that process like, like what's that thinking process like of like, I'm going to share.

[00:08:58] Nicole: Quite personal piece of information with the world, I guess I want to learn like, you know, what you, how you think about doing

[00:09:05] Kate: that. Yeah. I mean, I guess for sure when we first started out, of course I did kind of have like those hesitations and even within the past couple of years, I mean, I've woken up.

[00:09:16] Kate: Like, this was probably like three years ago. I remember waking up at 2:00 AM and. Publish my episodes at 3:30 AM. I woke up at 2:00 AM and I pulled an episode that was supposed to publish in an hour and a half because I was like, I, I, it was too much like I have to pull in episode an episode, an episode of Kate's Take my

[00:09:40] Kate: And yeah, I just felt like, uh, I can't do it. I just had like, so, so many fears and, and, and thoughts around, like, I shouldn't have said that. I said something that, you know, maybe I shouldn't have said that. And so I don't really think it's ever something that it's like, never there. And you're completely comfortable and, and all of that, but I do feel like just the same with confidence and with building a business or with starting a family, or like any number of things that, you know, we kind of stumble our way through it and we learn and we become more comfortable and confident with like what the next iteration of that looks like.

[00:10:22] Kate: And I think that that's how. Honesty and vulnerability and transparency has been for me. I mean, I think what really helped me along in the very beginning is like, if I put something super small out there, personal tidbit or, you know, something that I was like, I'm a little bit uncomfortable sharing this.

[00:10:40] Kate: Like maybe I think like, who cares about, then nobody's going to care about this. Like, nobody wants to hear about your personal life. But then I would post something and I'd have people reach out and say, thank you so much for sharing that. Like I needed to hear that today, or I can totally relate with that because I have a niece and a nephew too.

[00:10:58] Kate: And spending time with them is the best. Just the same way that we're sharing on this podcast. I think that people being able to relate and connect to other people to see like, oh, other people feel this way too. Other people experience this. And sometimes I still think like, I don't need to post this.

[00:11:18] Kate: Like nobody cares about the fact that I went on a run this morning, but I do consistently get people reach out and say, Thank you so much for sharing this. You encourage me to go on a run today and I wasn't going to do that. And to me, that is why. I'm doing this. Like that's why we started our business is to inspire people and to motivate people to live the life that they want to live, to go after that lifestyle and financial and location independence.

[00:11:47] Kate: And so if we can encourage people to do that through showing them that that's how we're living our lives. And I think that. Oh, that to people you have to lead by example. And I think that, um, you know, our transparency, you mentioned our income report. It's like, that was something that I wasn't super comfortable with in the beginning, because I thought like, what if people think that we're trying to, like, I'm not trying to brag about the fact that our business is generated.

[00:12:15] Kate: Substantial revenue, but I had to bring it back to what the true purpose of doing that was. And the true purpose was not to brag in any way. The true purpose was to inspire people to know that that was possible and not a lot of people. Do that, not a lot of people share the money that they make and the money that they spend.

[00:12:35] Kate: And if we're truly here to help entrepreneurs build a business and understand what it's like to run a seven figure business, we can't leave the monetization part out of it. Like that's a really important part.

[00:12:50] Nicole: A hundred percent. It makes total sense for the, what you said, your mission to inspire people and to actually, you know, pull back the curtain and show how it's done.

[00:12:58] Nicole: That that makes a hundred percent sense to me. And the fact that you've also done, you have shared this with me, and I think that's where I've drawn from you and seeing, um, the, how positive it can be to share. It as the simple things that you do in life. So all small motivational things that can encourage other people to, you know, to do something positive with their day.

[00:13:20] Nicole: You've gotten that feedback that it's been valuable and helpful. And it's kind of, for me, it's been such a contradiction because I agree with you, honesty and transparency. They want of my values too. And I think the cultural kind of. Foundation that I grew up with was very much from that sense. And I think this is not just an Italian thing, but it's very much an Italian.

[00:13:46] Nicole: Um, it, it is very much Italian in the sense that we focus on making a good impression, you know, saving face, all of that. So withholding information. Yeah. Topics like money, a taboo to talk about, or just being vulnerable about, you know, an operation that you had last year that, you know, is like, you don't need to share that with the world.

[00:14:09] Nicole: Like, why are you telling people that they don't need to know that kind of perspective of that, that kind of perception of like, just, you know, oh, how do I say it? That there isn't, there's an expression in Italian. It's called Bella Figura and it literally means a beautiful figure. But what it means is to.

[00:14:26] Nicole: Make a good impression. And, and, and it's, it's, it's so ingrained. So it's almost like, yeah, if you do share something, um, puts you in that, uh, vulner... That does open you up to criticism, which is totally okay. Like I've completely changed my views on this. It's totally fine. But it is an evolution, right? Like you, maybe you, you, you share one little detail and you get.

[00:14:53] Nicole: Uh, feedback, or you have that honest conversation with a friend where you, you are vulnerable and you do expose yourself emotionally. And the feedback is that it helps that person to open up and give them comfort. There's so much positivity that comes out of that. Um, so for me, it's been like really seeing that, yeah, there's this, this whole, you know, idea that there are topics that, you know, might be taboo and no one needs to know that.

[00:15:20] Nicole: And what have you. But the upside, you know, we're talking about repercussions and the fears and the positive upside of that is that it's helpful. And I think one of my drivers is that I always, I do want to be helpful in some way, if I can. And if it's sharing a story of struggle or a challenge being vulnerable then, and if that can help someone, then I feel like there's value.

[00:15:46] Nicole: In it I've just recently, I feel like I've come so late to the game to Ms Brenè Brown, who is amazing. I feel like what I've just recently discovered her, but over the weekend, I actually watched the call to courage.

[00:16:00] Kate: No, but I'm like, so intrigued now. Yeah,

[00:16:04] Nicole: it was, I mean, I hadn't even seen her Ted Talk on vulnerability, as I said, like, I feel like I'm playing catch up right.

[00:16:11] Nicole: As like, I'm sure so many people wouldn't. Yeah. Come on. What are you talking about? Everyone's saying that, but I know, but she talks about vulnerability and true vulnerability being you're really vulnerable where there's true risk, true uncertainty and emotional exposure. Real vulnerability because sometimes I feel like we can, we probably come across, um, and we might see things online that feel like, oh, I dunno, we won't talk about fake versus there's real transparency.

[00:16:42] Kate: Yeah. I mean, it's interesting that you bring up the risk perspective because if you think about it from how much is too much, where do you, where do you draw the line? What's fake and what's real. I mean, it's pretty, cringe-worthy when you see fake vulnerability, I think it's quite obvious, especially if it's somebody who you follow regularly, but as the individual, do you know that it's fake?

[00:17:13] Nicole: Well, that's what I kind of learned from her talk, which was kind of the aha moment. Is that true vulnerabilities when you actually don't know, you can't predict the outcome. So you said it's obvious that it's fake because is that. Person who's posting or sharing that piece of information, that whatever, pretty sure what the outcome's going to be.

[00:17:36] Nicole: Yeah, exactly. And that's mind blowing for

[00:17:39] Kate: me. Yeah, that does. I mean, it puts it, it puts it in such a clear light, right. Even for, you know, anybody to kind of put it to the test. And that's what immediately came to mind when you mentioned risk is I can look back at so many. Scenarios and situations and feel like, I feel like this is a little bit risky, but I'm going to go ahead and do it.

[00:18:03] Kate: Yeah, that's so interesting. Okay. I'm very excited to check out call to courage. I mean, I've known of Brenè Brown for a while and I've followed a lot of her stuff. I've read a couple of her books, but, uh, you know, I. Actually kind of feel like maybe I'm playing a bit of catch up with, there's just, I mean, there's so many amazing people sharing so much, um, awesome knowledge, but this is just so relevant to the topic that we're, that we're chatting about.

[00:18:30] Kate: Yeah.

[00:18:30] Nicole: Yeah. Definitely. Her work on vulnerability is it's. I mean, it's spans decades too. She's been doing it for like 20 years. I'm also reading her book. I thought it was just to me, um, Uh, a study on shame and it's one of those, again, really heavy, uncomfortable topics that people don't want to talk about.

[00:18:48] Nicole: But I thought it's quite timely that this decision for us to do this, this podcast together to share our conversations openly, um, I feel like this is kind of all research and foundational material to kind of Armour me and give me the strength. Okay. Do it, Nicole. Do it.

[00:19:07] Kate: I mean, honestly, when I launched my podcast, Kate's Take, that I felt that a hundred percent, it was really, uh, exercise.

[00:19:15] Kate: And I mean, I launched the podcast for many reasons, but one of my biggest reasons was like, I need this exercise and putting myself out there and becoming more comfortable with sharing the knowledge that I have and the experiences that I have, knowing that they can help people, but also knowing. Not everybody who tunes into this is going to agree and they might have different experiences and different perspectives.

[00:19:39] Kate: And I'm okay with that. And I respect that and you know, that's fine if they don't agree with me, uh, my whole goal is to hopefully help someone. I think that's a risk that we take is that if we're constantly afraid to share anything, then what is the cost of that? You know that it might be an unintended consequence, but like what's the cost of not sharing your stories and your experiences.

[00:20:06] Nicole: I think to me, what kind of in the decision to like, take the plunge to do this podcast with you and to share our conversations and risk and take those risks, the consequences of not doing it, it's, it's safe, it's easy. And it just doesn't feel right. The life I want to live. I mean, the thing is, and she talks about this in a call to courage should have refers to coming off the blocks, um, is that, oh, you know, stepping into the arena is that it's, you're gonna get beaten down.

[00:20:43] Nicole: It's gonna, it there'll be moments where it's ugly. Like that's going to happen. It's not like, oh, starting a business, you know, being vulnerable, you know, putting yourself out there, you could fail. As she says, you will fail and being okay with that. That's the risk. Living that life is so different to just living the safe and comfortable life.

[00:21:05] Nicole: And I think, I know we talked about this in the first episode when you're really sure, like, you know, that you're making a decision to do something that is. Pretty, you know, maybe contrary to the common path or contrary to popular opinion, but you're sure that you're doing it and you're doing it for the reasons that, you know, really propel you and move you forward and motivate you and feel right to you.

[00:21:31] Nicole: That's the kind of life that I want to do. Because it is pretty it's okay to choose that path of least resistance and choose, choose comfort. As she says, choose, you know, she chooses courage over comfort, choosing comfort, I think is the consequence and yeah. And that's okay. It's okay. Like we said, there is no right or wrong here.

[00:21:50] Nicole: I'm just not comfortable. With choosing comfort.

[00:21:53] Kate: Yeah. No, absolutely.

[00:21:55] Nicole: Because there's supposed to be serious moment. I'm not comfortable with choosing comfort.

[00:22:00] Kate: There you go. Yeah. I mean, I told him when you think about what's on the other side of it, like in choosing, um, courage or choosing comfort. You ha I mean, you choose courage because you have a strong enough desire for what's on the other side of that.

[00:22:18] Kate: And when you choose comfort, you also have to understand and be okay with the fact that that's what you're choosing. Like I remember, I mean, we talk about like, you know, what happens when you do share this vulnerability and open up and, and maybe share things that earlier in your life would have seemed taboo, or maybe you wouldn't have done that.

[00:22:38] Kate: I did a transformational training. This was back in. 2013, like late 2013. And it was like one of the most uncomfortable experiences I've ever been in before, because you're in this room with these people. And for this entire weekend, you're literally talking about things that I like. I was talking about things that I had literally never said out loud before, not even to myself and the what was on the other yeah.

[00:23:08] Kate: Side of that was like massive breakthroughs. And my, my ability to recognize an, a very, like, clearer than I've ever seen it before, how small I was playing. And that was really like, my huge breakthrough of that weekend was that I was playing small. And if I'm okay with living my life, playing small, Keep being comfortable, keep being in the back of the room.

[00:23:36] Kate: Keep not being the one to raise your hand, keep your opinion to yourself for fear of what other people say about it. Or you could start like playing big and winning big and experiencing things and learning new things and being okay with failure because it's going to propel you forward. And just like you said in that moment, I'm like, I don't want.

[00:24:00] Kate: Play small. I want to play huge. And that is what got me over. So many of these tendencies that I had, that I didn't even realize that that was what was like really steering the trajectory of my life. If I would have kept playing small that's I gotta be okay with the outcome. Not really doing much, not having a voice, not standing up for myself, not making my own choices and decisions and being comfortable with those, like we've been talking about.

[00:24:32] Kate: So, you know, I really think that that's, that's a, uh, a huge consideration as like, you choose whatever you want to choose, but you got to be straight with yourself and honest with yourself about what the outcome of that is. That's the life you want to live then? Keep doing what you're doing.

[00:24:50] Nicole: Yeah. And we wouldn't be here today.

[00:24:53] Nicole: Would we? If we haven't for whatever that's worth or whatever. Well, it's worth a lot. And I feel it's worth a lot because you know, when you want to find your voice, you know, when you're actually, you're actually like for me personally, I'm uncomfortable with the knowing that. I don't have, I didn't, I don't have a level of confidence that I desire.

[00:25:20] Nicole: Or like you said, being that person at a conference to raise your hand and ask a question. How many times have you been in that situation? Like, oh, no, my question's not going to be really interesting. They've probably heard this before and little things like that that, you know, like, why do I feel like that I've got to overcome that.

[00:25:39] Nicole: Um, it's, it's a process. It's a journey and it sounds like. Transformational weekend was, was, was huge. Um, and so I'm finding my own way, you know, through this, uh, with you doing this, having these conversations and, you know, they can be uncomfortable. And, but I think sharing our stories and, um, and this is what I'm learning from.

[00:26:04] Nicole: Brenè Brown is sharing our stories is probably one of the most. Important things we can do to help other people, um, to connect with other people. And I think that's what I mean, that's what we're all about. Right. Human connection. And it only, I think it only really happens. I'm really seeing an understanding through her work, that it really only happens when, when we are vulnerable and truly vulnerable, not the fake vulnerable, it's gotta be the true vulnerability which comes at a cost.

[00:26:32] Nicole: But I think you've experienced already is, is so rewarding. You know, it's so

[00:26:36] Kate: rewarding. Yeah. Well, I always say, of course, I don't always say this. Well, I do always say this, but I'm not the, I'm not trying to act like I coined this or anything. What I'm trying to get at here. All the magic happens outside of your comfort zone.

[00:26:52] Kate: Right. And so when I think about doing things that are uncomfortable, And, and I've totally been there where I'm like, I don't think I can do that. And they like, I'm so uncomfortable. And I've started to, as we were talking about before kind of flipping the script on that and being like, okay, If I, if this makes me really uncomfortable, that is why I should do it.

[00:27:18] Kate: That is why I want to do it because I know that in discomfort, I'm going to learn something I'm going to grow from that. I'm going to be taking that next step on this evolution of becoming a better person and a more helpful person and a more valuable person. And, and it's not easy. If it were easy, everyone would do it.

[00:27:37] Kate: I feel like I'm coming up with all these phrases that like, we've all heard a million times. Right. But it's so true. But what I wanted to make sure an add here is that in those moments, when you feel so uncomfortable doing something, I think that's why. Conversations and connections with others. And that support is so important because I can't tell you how many times I've leaned on friends and asked for support or asked for encouragement when I'm coming up against something that feels really awkward.

[00:28:06] Kate: You don't have to do it alone. You don't have to, you feel like you're just on this journey and like nobody else gets you because I can guarantee you that so many people can relate to that. Right. I felt that way before. And all you have to do is ask for that support.

[00:28:21] Nicole: Yeah. Yeah. And if you don't have those people, I think that's, that's some, you know, as you said, people, there's, there's definitely people in your world that are like that.

[00:28:29] Nicole: And, and, and those are the people that you want to be surrounded by. Um, Yeah, life's too short, you know, to not be surrounded

[00:28:38] Kate: by it. You are the average of the five people you spend the most time with.

[00:28:41] Nicole: There you go. We had to try that one, one more in there. Yes. It's one of the best. It's one of the best. And it's when it's one of the truest and it's surprising like you for you.

[00:28:49] Nicole: And I feel like everybody knows that. But outside the world of our, you know, entrepreneurship space and the online world. I have friends. Who've never heard that. I have friends who don't know who Jim Rohn is. I've never read that. And that is, um, even that moment where you realize, Hey, the people that I'm surrounded by, they do influence.

[00:29:11] Nicole: You know how I move forward and how I achieve my own goals and the things that I want to get out of life. Um, so I think it's, it's super valuable. I know. We always feel like no, everybody knows that, but maybe they don't. So it's helpful.

[00:29:27] Kate: Well, as we close out today's episode, thank you so much friends for joining us, where we have been sharing our own experiences at answering the question, how much is too much to share and vulnerability and all kinds of.

[00:29:45] Kate: Living your life, the way that you want to live at choosing your life. Don't forget to follow or subscribe to Nicole and Kate can relate for more episodes. Like this one. Our mission with this podcast is to share a candid convo one time per week to help provide love, support, and space for women to share without judgment, speak, without hesitation, and to learn from each other, even when we don't agree until next.

Vulnerability and sharing: How much is too much?
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